Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

[sundayrose10]

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

I think everyone granted a non-molestation order should be issued with a tazer.

Is there any reason why the talk is still about the women who are abused by violent men?

It's baloney.

Might as well say children who get bullied are going to be magnetically drawn to bullies all their lives.

good point AyeRobot.

here's a question.

How is it possible that a man with a history of violence can send repeated texts to a woman actually threatening her and yet still not be locked up?????

If he was threatening her but had no history of violence, or if he had previously hurt her but the police just had her word for it that he wanted to do something more drastic, you could see why it might be hard to step in, but what the fuck was going on here? What the fuck is going on with our legal system if it's really true the police couldn't have done anything?

It is so sad seeing the pictures of her, I come from round there and she looks like such a normal Essex girl.

The book had a positive effect on me because it made me face up to the fact that I was getting high on danger. Take responsiblity for correcting my bad and silly ways and stop acting like a fool.

Sorry if I offend but you put yourself in danger over and over again and there is a reason for it. Don't matter if its horses,climbing,diving or hooking up with a dangerous partner. You have to get real and take reponsibilty for your own life and your DCs lives.

it is not that simple. her work (as in writing) is considered to be a little out of date now, though no one else has helped raise awareness of dv

i'm doing placement work (part of my degree) in a dv centre, no story is the same, none of the woman are alike and no violence started from day one.

that is not to say that women who have come from abuse upbringings are more likely to accept abuse as the norm and they have also often seen a very loving side to the abuser often after an attack so caan easily equate as part of a loving relationship, then there is cultural differences though no culture is accepting of dv many turn a blind eye and woman are property of the men in their family, equally many women who have grown up around dv see the warning sign and get out, then there are those that have never experienced abuse before so for them the start of it is very confusing. as for the men not all men are violent in every relationship and the women they are violent towards are not alike

violence on the womens side tends to be from fear of being abused (often when women have grown up in abusive home) or fighting back not to control a partner after wearing them down with emotional abuse. again that is not always the case but liek i said its very complex and undermines the many women who do not fit into the so called victim profile. those who have been in abusive relationships are not meek, wallflowers who abusive men spot out a mile off

However "out of date" she is considered to be is rather irrelevant considering that without her there wouldn't be a Womens Aid.

Can we talk about the men who do this? It wouldn't matter what background a woman had if there wasn't a man who was prepared to injure or kill her.

So what is about those men?
And why don't they just walk away instead of harming?
Why don't they leave?

And the tazer thing. What use is a non-molestation order anyway? How does a piece of paper from a judge protect someone? It only means that there are sanctions if it is breached. i.e. if they do further harm.

michelleseashell, I don't understand your loaf of bread/ receipt scenario. can you explain please?
Thanks

Greenstocking I think you are asking some very pertinant questions and would genuinely like to see some answers.

I have read and reread this thread and fail to see ANYONE shifting responsibility from the violent man onto the woman.

Absolutely everyone is in agreement that the man is to blame , but as someone previously said, it doesn't hurt to look at the wider issues.

and can someone please clarify in case I missed it, is this correct -the reason police say they can't take action on the basis of threats alone is because so many women are threatened there is insufficient police time to investigate "just " a threat? ie they would be busy all day every day investigating threats?

good point RObot. Why the hell don't the men just walk away?

And the non molestation order strikes me as being analagous to courts punishing joyriders/ car thiefs/ hit and runners by banning them from driving

not disputing the fantastic work she has done, but in learning about dv her work is considered out of date along with women who love too much. that does not mean everything she has written is wrong not at all but society has changed, attitudes towards dv has changed and more importantly understand the issue has changed it was not long ago that women were blamed for staying with a violent man there was no or very little understanding of emotional abuse and sadly as i have often seen on here many still have very little understanding of teh issues around dv

if her book is still helping women then that is great, the understanding of dv has evolved. also counselling and ss come from different angles on abuse (along with many other issues) so maybe her work is still being used by trainee social workers (neither am i disputing great work done by ss)

But why are the wider issues about what women do?

What about the menz?

I don't think men walk away because they see "their" women and children as "their" property to do with what they will.

And?

Can we have a psychological exploration of that as has happened about abused women? And what they should do or be so as to avoid that happening?

Not aimed at you, especially, ALouiseG.

The wider issues have to be about the women as well as the men because there are 2 people involved, the perpetrator and the victim. Men are physically stronger as a rule and generally hold more power. Let's start by looking at ways to redress this. Even if it does mean arming the woman with a tazer so that she can adequately protect herself and not have to wait for police protection.

Sorry I can't leave this thread alone.

You're right, Al0uiseG. In the case this thread is about, they were about to go to court, presumably because he claimed he wanted custody of/access to the little girl. Given that he killed her, how likely is it that he wanted to see her in order to spend time with her, help her learn to ride a bicycle, read her a story etc - bollocks, he just wanted to "own" her.

Men like this also don't seem to see children as people, just by-products of the relationship. Otherwise why would they want them to die when the relationship ends, or in milder cases, why would so many men walk away utterly from their own children when the relationship with their mother breaks down?

Noone is saying the wider issues are about what women do/ don't do , but that's a part of it and open to debate.

I have never ever on MN read anyone BLAMING the victims of DV.There is a world of difference between blaming , and the sort of head scratching "why the hell does she not leave him ?"that accompanies seeing your friend continuing to live with an abusive tosser.

As is how the heck do some boys grow into men who act this way?

Yes of course I can explain. In the scenario, the man is suspicious of the woman and doesn't believe her that she has simply been to the shop. So he checks her bags to see what's inside. That's why he seems interested in the bread but doesn't eat any. Then he has taken the receipt for the purchase so he can check the times and make sure they tally up with her story.

It's an example of how a man starts spying or checking up on a woman- but she doesn't have any firm evidence that it's happening and so she unwittingly stays with her abusive partner. This is the sort of thing that used to happen to me in the early days. He used to hide my house keys before he went out, so that I couldn't go anywhere. To me at the time I just thought I'd lost my keys. Now I realise that he had deliberately hidden them to trap me in the house. He wanted to keep tabs on me. So much groundwork is done isolating the woman before the violence starts. It can be many years before anything physical happens.

My last post was in response to Al's of 22:38:45 btw.

oh how sad

thanks Michelle. That is truly scary. If you found the recipt in your husband's pocket, did you ask him how it got there, and if so , what did he say?

What were his good qualities that made you love him to begin with?

"So much groundwork is done isolating the woman before the violence starts. It can be many years before anything physical happens"

Do you think this is it, in a nutshell, in many cases?

I know, Al0uiseG, and I am not being deliberately obtuse. Or maybe I am, if only to lift some eyes from the victim to the perpetrator. Stop the perpetrators, then you stop there being victims. To stop victims being victims, you need to stop....the perpetrators. You can only be a victim if there is a violent man about. If it wasn't Christine Chambers, it would have been another woman in his life. She didn't cause this.

The victims could be any one of us. It is either arrogance or naivety to think otherwise. This man may have had form in other ways, but many others don't. What about the pilot who killed his wife and buried her in Windsor Great Park? Or pretty much anyone on the Victims of Violence thread. They are not all "scum" men, as if she deserved it because she lay down with one. The "well, what could she expect" attitude is horrendous. Anything less that a perfect upbringing and a perfectly planned and lived life and you get what is coming to you. Fuck that.

robot, I don't agree that the victims could be any one of us.

Sorry, but I just don't believe that, and trust me, I am neither arrogant nor naive

why do you not think that jasper? do you know what to look out for in an abusive man do you feel the signs are there from day one or men are attracted to a women they can abuse

Yes I think it is in as much of a nutshell as it could be. No one would just hang around if someone hit them but of course you would stay over something like losing your keys or finding a receipt in a strange place.

The bread thing didn't actually happen but he would've said that he found the receipt on the floor while he was tidying and put it in his pocket. Then he'd have wanted to know why I was going through his pockets and it would've turned into an argument about how I didn't trust him. Then the next time, I would hesitate to mention something like that. I could write a book on how I went from a confident, happy woman to being in an ambulance after being beaten up. I can think of a lot of real examples for you but it's hard to keep them short. He was very clever though. Very, very clever. I was constantly thinking did that happen, did this happen, am I going crazy? One thing he would do was to say something in an argument and then when I challenged him, he'd say he hadn't said it. I'd tell him he had said it, I'd heard him. He'd say no you must be imagining things. Then he'd suddenly change the subject and start talking about something else. He would switch from talking about things that happened that week, last month, an hour ago...

I talk to my husband about some of it and he can't even believe it could happen to me. The person I am in our marriage is not the confused, muddled and scared person I was back then. I find it hard to believe myself. It was all so obvious looking back but I'm seeing the wood finally, rather than the trees.

I suppose the thing that attracted me was that he was so charming. He's a salesman and he sold me the image of himself he wanted to portray.