Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

424 replies

sundayrose10 · 07/06/2011 01:56

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

OP posts:
michelleseashell · 07/06/2011 17:00

Greenstocking, here's another situation for you. You can decide whether you leave him or stay.

You go to the shop to buy a loaf of bread. When you get home, your husband asks you what kind of bread you bought. Then he gets the bread out of the bag and looks at it but doesn't eat any of it. Later that week, you're putting his trousers in the wash and you find the receipt for your bread in his pocket. How did it get there?

You're throwing your clothes in a bag before you can say 'Hovis'? He's obviously spying on you, right?

wubblybubbly · 07/06/2011 17:03

Mumofaflump Sad. Brilliant, heartbreaking post.

aliceliddell · 07/06/2011 17:08

Still maintain - focus on violent men and useless police & courts. These are things which could and should be changed. The minutiae (sp?) of women's behaviour is not the issue.

Mumofaflump · 07/06/2011 17:10

Thank you wubblybubbly. I'm ok now, been with someone for 6 years who loves me and has made me feel beautiful and loved. I'm one of the lucky ones.

michelleseashell · 07/06/2011 17:11

So glad you got a happy ending mumofaflump

millie30 · 07/06/2011 17:23

Greenstocking, I'm interested in your comments that women are in some way responsible by chosing to have children with violent partners. Do you really think it is that straightforward? In a high number of cases abuse only starts or escalates during pregnancy. It is recognised as a trigger for some violent men, it certainly was for my ex partner.

Another issue is that you assume women make an active choice in these situations. In many abusive relationships women don't get to chose what they wear, if they work, can go out, see friends etc. Why would you therefore assume that they have total control over their reproductive rights?

When I was in a refuge there was another woman there who had two children with an extremely violent partner. She was regularly subjected to comments such as "Well why did you have another child with him then?" What people didn't know is that she was repeatedly raped by her partner and the pregnancies were a result of that. Even if women aren't violently raped, there is an element of control and coercion due to the dynamic of these relationships, and consent is hampered by this.

Your comments that women shouldn't have children with these men sounds like you are holding them partly responsible for their predicament. That is ignorant and judgemental, and as someone who had a child in an abusive relationship, I find it highly offensive.

HandDivedScallopsrgreat · 07/06/2011 17:25

Some great posts here from Sybil, Elephants, Martini et al. Can only agree with what they are saying - focusing on the woman's behaviour is only deflecting from the real issue which is the man's behaviour (and the police in their negligence).

I used to have a similar attitude to you Greenstocking - why don't they leave. That was before I realised I had been in an abusive relationship myself (non-violent). I only thought abusive relationships were violent. As michelle is alluding to in her excellent posts - it is insidious, it becomes normal, you can't see the wood for the trees, you are emotionally (and possibly financially) invested in the situation. Even after I did leave he continued to harrass me and proposition me, anything to get back in my life for years afterwards. A huge amount of energy is required to leave and have the strength to never go back. More than a lot of people realise. Thankfully I didn't have any children with my fuckwit ex but I can only imagine how much harder it would have been with that permanent tie.

DillyDaydreaming · 07/06/2011 18:09

For anyone here seeking to leave a violent relationship, please, please, please get support from the Women's Refuge to do so. Plan how this will happen, who will be with you and what help is available for you. Cannot stress this enough, it's the most dangerous time as many women killed by a violent partner die either when trying to leave or in the aftermath.

Leave but do so safely. Follow all the links to Women's Aid for advice and support. Take all the help you can.

Al0uiseG · 07/06/2011 18:18

I imagine if you need police help now is a really good time to ask for it, I can't see any woman being fobbed off at the moment.

SardineQueen · 07/06/2011 18:20

babybarrister I have just seen your response.

"sardine - I am afraid that it is not nonsense - certainly not in relation to the cases that reach court. ask any family lawyer. I did not say it was OK, I said it is what happens. "

But the vast majority of relationship break-ups do not go to court Confused

You said "I agree with notinmykitchen - there is violence at the end of the majority of relationships - the problem for the police etc is working out in which ones there is likely to be extreme or on-going violence".

But this is just not true. It just isn't. Most relationships do not end in violence. To accept that they do, and thus the police have a tricky time separating out the "normal" violence from the violence that is going to get bad (I mean WTF anyway) is drivel. Any violence within a relationship is not normal. Most relationships do not end in violence. They just don't. Where there is violence it is a criminal matter and the authorities should take it seriously. Not sit back and think it is a normal part of life that happens to everyone when they split up with someone (WTF again).

beesimo · 07/06/2011 18:35

Has anyone read a book called 'Prone to Violence' by a woman called Erin Piittly?

I spilts my lip/black eye coming of a stepladder once and after they' d stiched me up at hospital, social worker lady gave me book which I did NOT need.

Anyway it was very interesting I am not going to try and explain as I can not do it justice is there any social worker lady that can explain book properly. Because I think much of it was true but not nice to think true.

Al0uiseG · 07/06/2011 19:22

It's Erin Pizzey and she basically founded Womens Aid, she ran a shelter for women and children from abusive backgrounds and eventually wrote several books on the subject. Iirc she believed that women who came from abusive backgrounds actually craved and subliminally sought relationships with men who treated them badly because they were hard wired that way. Whether she would stand by that premise today I don't know but I remember reading it and things dropped into place for me.

KittySpencer · 07/06/2011 19:48

Lets not put about the idea that it's only women with no self esteem who are abused. It can happen to anyone - I know because it happened to me.

I cannot imagine what those children went through, nor how hard it will be for the surviving sister :( Thoughts to her and her brothers.

A tragedy, however one that was totally avoidable had the police in Essex been doing their job rather than sitting on their arses. Having had experience of that force in the past, I'm sadly not surprised that they failed to intervene.

Al0uiseG · 07/06/2011 19:54

The only person responsible for those deaths is the man who pulled the trigger.

It really doesn't hurt to look at the wider issues surrounding DV though.

michelleseashell · 07/06/2011 19:57

What a load of nonsense about people being hard wired that way. Maybe women who have been badly treated in childhood are more likely to end up with a man with a similar background and therefore issues or those women expect less of their partners initially but anyone can be broken down given enough time. I'm certainly not looking to trade in my lovely husband for the next abusive shit going begging because I secretly crave ill treatment. What rot!

Al0uiseG · 07/06/2011 20:00

It's not just about you though MichelleSeashell

SybilBeddows · 07/06/2011 20:15

'hard-wired' is an incredibly dodgy concept, as Cordelia Fine (for instance) demonstrates.

the brain is much more plastic than that.

I'm guessing Pizzey didn't use that exact term? Or did she?

beesimo · 07/06/2011 20:18

michelle

Erin was saying you can get addicted to living in fear/danger like racing driver so when dangerous partner threatens you have adrenalyne ect through body then when you not hurt badly you have happy chemicals flooding body as in very high whoosh up then feel great. Like you should always tell lasses it is not funny if a Man drives car too fast and scares you then says it is joke it is the start of badness it is not 'exciting.'

B understood a LITTLE bit about what Erin said because before DCs I did take big big risks when riding/showing off and some times you think Christ I should not be putting this horse to this jump and your body goes whoosh you take jump then it gives you lovely feeling. The more people shouted at B to be careful the higher B jumped.

Iam not judging any I am saying I think this is true in some cases at the START of relationship then true fear takes over and they have awful time of it.

Al0uiseG · 07/06/2011 20:20

I can't remember, I read it a very long time ago. Pretty tricky to summarise with accurate quotes after all these years.

michelleseashell · 07/06/2011 20:21

I don't believe anyone secretly craves the kind of treatment these abusive men are handing out. That would take a level of masochism so extreme as to only be seen in the most exceptional circumstances. Certainly not enough people to warrant inventing an entire theory to pop in a leaflet and go handing out to random women with suspicious bruises. It's a load of baloney.

MitchiestInge · 07/06/2011 20:22

Pizzey is famously quite dodgy though isn't she?

michelleseashell · 07/06/2011 20:25

I do agree that a woman who has already been abused in childhood could potentially be an easier target, but not that any part of her is unconsciously willing it on.

Al0uiseG · 07/06/2011 20:26

She was subjected to some vicious attacks for a while and lowered her profile. But then when you question or attack the patriarchy from any angle you're risking ridicule and doubt.

FreudianSlipper · 07/06/2011 21:50

its a myth that abusive men are attracted to a type of women and equally a myth that women are attracted to violent men. if it were that simple the rates of dv would be non existent, what women really wants to be wmotionally abused, punched and kicked and degraded over and over again

beesimo · 07/06/2011 21:54

Freudian

What do you think it is then?