to think that if a man said"I can't drive on motorways" or"I never answer the door if I'm home alone" or "I don' t know where the trip switch is" or "I can't update the operating system on my computer

[seeker]

... or any other basic life skill people would point and laugh?

So why doesn't the same apply to women? Why are women still expected and encouraged to being pathetic, and applauded when they are?

And why are women who aren't often regarded with suspicion?

I can and do everything that needs doing in the household. apart from peeing standing up. and dh (sometimes) does the washing or cooking.
and I find driving on motorways much less stressfull than country lanes...
but I see where seeker is coming from, I don't quite get the cutsy helpless attitude very few women display.

MI - I think it is a blessing driving with a passenger who cannot drive .
I may well swap seats if I was subjected to tutting. Or perhaps evict the tutter!
Rhubarb, not driving in snow and ice is common sense if you haven't got winter tyres / a vehicle good on snow AND experience, and there would be far fewer crashes if some people realised that they are not the invincible snowman on wheels!! My old car was fab on snow, narrow wheels, good second gear ratio...my new car has fatter wheels and is automatic - I won't be going out on snow.

"And I do think it is even wetter to say 'oh my poor penis-holder cannot cope with such things as the washing machine or the cooker' or 'just isn't very good with children'..."

Hear hear!

Personally i think that everybody -man or woman- should live on his/her own for at least a couple of years. Some people have never lived on their own.

I'm a woman, and I have no issue at all saying that driving on motorways makes me nervous. I have done it two or three times in my life. The other options I can and will do.

In fact, it wouldn't worry me if I met a man that told me they were nervous about motorway driving too. But maybe the fact that there are no motorways where I live makes that easier to bear?

Laquitar - perfect answer! When you are on your own you are quite surprised at the things you CAN to because you HAVE to. It's all too easy for us to rely on them to sort out repairs or call out the engineer and too easy for them to rely on us for their washing/cooking etc. If more people lived on their own then they'd soon learn survival skills!

i agree with Rhubarb.?

YABVU.

My DW either doesn't or can't do any of the things listed by the OP and she never cooks, does gardening or DIY and has never changed a light bulb, mended a fuse or wired a plug either.

She points out that this is what she keeps me for and in my absence would hire a housekeeper/gardener. She is extraordinarily competent at other things which she feels are more important and she is better at. She doesn't do simpering pathetic little woman and she does have skills I don't have.

Sorry but I don't think there can be any excuse not to be able to do basic survival skills, like cooking. Your dw may well be a very talented woman, but if she can't muster up scrambled egg on toast then what will happen to her when the zombies take over and her unique talents are not in demand? How will she survive?

Tis a bit sad not doing anything around the house though. I think that's more of a case of 'won't do' rather than 'can't do' and puts an awful lot of responsibility onto you MoreBeta - I take it that you work too?

Rhubarb, I think you have identified the true touchstone of equality: who does what in the Zombie Plan?

If it is your job to shriek, run to the least safe part of the house, alone, wearing a skimpy camisole vest and rather fetching knickers, while your partner remains alert and resolute, weapon at the ready, and checks all the doors and windows, then you score top marks for patheticness.
But may well be awarded an Oscar.

We work together 4 days and she goes out to work the other day in the week.

Its just a division of labour thing. We each do what we are good at.

She does things like sewing and mending which I just can't do. She organises family finances, family diary, children's school diary which I could do but she likes doing it. She can cook basic things of course but she really dislikes doing it so much that she prefers to eat out or get a ready made meal when I am not there.

I could learn to sew but DW is so much better at it already it's not worth it. Am I pathetic for not being able to sew? I can't drive either and I certainly would not open the door after dark given the drug dealers that frequent our street.

What if you tore your arm trying to keep the zombies out? Are you saying you couldn't stitch it together? Your dw's mending skills could be very useful in an all out zombie attack but you need more than that, you need to know where the main switch is so that once you've flooded your house and dropped loads of electrical items into the water, when the zombies come in you can flick it and zap them all in one go!

Most women I know do everything for the kids, myself included. It irks me that if I went away for a week dh wouldn't give them a decent packed lunch, or know who goes to which club or how much they needed etc. If you can both swap and change then surely it makes you both more independent? I'd hate to be totally dependent on someone, it's so lame.

Seeker I think you are very wrong. If a man said that he couldn't update his operating system etc people would assume he just hadn't learned how to do that task. They would not point and laugh and say he was pathetic.

However, If a woman says any of those things people do think she is pathetic.

So the reverse is true.

IMO people are people, some have skills that others do not. Driving is an expensive skill to acquire and one that not everyone either needs or enjoys.

MynameisTerces- great post, I totally agree.

Personally I find anyone who says these things a teensy bit pathetic. Maybe pathetic is the wrong word, but a bit weak. I get so frustrated when people are surprised that I can drive a van for work. I've had quite a few patronising twunts ask me if I can manage (not at work I hasten to add, they wouldn't dare!)

I wanted to scream at my SIL the other day when she said to ds she didn't know how to open the back door of his car transporter because she was "only a girl"

My computer updates itself.

I dont like to drive on motorways. The speed worries me. I dont refuse to drive there though, I just keep to the inside lane and keep to the speed limit.

I can however use powertools, and have no issues driving a big campervan. Just as long as I dont have to drive it on the motorway.....

I also dont like down hill skiing, due to speed. I am a closet speedo-phobic.

My computer is pathetic, it doesn't know how [kidding]

Re: opening the door whilst on your own...I am home alone in the house with 2 small dc all day. Its my door, my house and I open it when I fucking well feel like it! I dont rush every time the doorbell rings, no. I dont interupt my sons lunch to talk to jehovahs witnesses or people trying to flog me cheaper gas. Whats the point? Whats your point?????

Re: driving on motorways. I avoid it if I can because I dont enjoy it Unavoidable sometimes, and I do use motorways, but prefer not to. All the men driving like twats, you see?????

Re: trip switch. Puurleease!! Up til 3 nights ago dh didnt know where the stop cock was. We have lived here for 12 years.

I know plenty of men and women with no common sense and who can barely tie their own shoelaces. I dont point and laugh. I think its sad.

"My Mum (now 80) has been a sahm (nee 'housewife') for most of her life, before we grew up, traditional in every way in division of labour - but she always drove on motorways - I never grew up thinking that it was remotely dangerous"

My mum is 74 and only learnt to drive when she had children because my dad forced her to as an "in case of emergency" measure. She hates it and I can probably count on my fingers and toes she has driven me in my entire lifetime. I have never seen her drive on a motorway yet I also never grew up thinking I couldn't. I do hate driving though and will weasle out of it at any opportunity (I don't care who drives me, male or female). This isn't pathetic.

My dad is responsble for the the fact that I don't think I have to Get A Man I to do stuff. Not because he raised me to do it but because I saw him do stuff and never assumed I coudn't. Whist my mum and dad had very traditional male/female roles (as, I would imgine, pretty much their entire generation did) I never came away with the idea that I couldn't, for exmple:

• replace a light fitting with complicated loft wiring (although I did have to phone my brother when I blew the fuse 3 times in row!)
• plumb in my poncey fridge freezer
• build a WW2 go cart with DS2 from scraps around the house
• wire a plug (because I had been taught how
• lay laminate flooring, mow the lawn, put up curtan rails, replaster (I was crap at that though), wallpaper, remove and replace a door, build flatpack, replace the front door lock, re-cement the front step...
• sew (bizarrey, again from watching my dad!) This is more to do with the fact that I see no need to get a "professional" in than any gender related nonsense.

However, despite being taught how to change the wheel of car by my dad as basic survival technique, when I had a flat tyre aged 19, I knocked on a neighbour's door and played helpless female. He changed it for me and I didn't get dirty. A life skill my dad certainly didnt teach me :o

I know my limits though and do not feel I am being pathetic in any way if I need someone to help. Why would I?

This info about DIY for kids is brilliant (fantastic writer!) but it's a great idea for taking the fear out of DIY and teaching kids they can do this stuff themselves.

As a nation we're all too reliant on other people. We get cleaners in, have accountants to manage our finances, odd-job men to do simple repairs, painters and decorators etc. Doing stuff yourself just doesn't seem to happen anymore. Back in the 70s/80s no-one would dream of paying someone else to do the job! Ok, women may not have done any of the DIY but these days it's pathetic when neither sex are willing to have a go.

I do have a slight problem in that I can't reach the trip switch- unless I put the toddler's highchair on top of their little table, which is a little rickety...

I don't know anyone in rl (m or f) who would not drive on a motorway, other than people who cannot actually pass their test drive.

Soupdragon, that's interesting!

No-one in our family was in the least bit practical in terms of DIY, and Dad was / is pathetic (there is no other word for it) around washing machine use, cooking and other basic domestic tasks.

So, I learned to do plug-related things, and to change a wheel. Actually my all-girls school was hot on enabling girls to be self-sufficient. And having taken on a DH who was so domestically inexperienced my Mum simply refused to allow my brother to apply to a local university and live at home - she was adamant that he must live independently and learn what's what, and that she would ensure that no other woman had to look after him in the home, as she had done for my Dad.

Montmarte - get a step ladder