to think that if a man said"I can't drive on motorways" or"I never answer the door if I'm home alone" or "I don' t know where the trip switch is" or "I can't update the operating system on my computer

[seeker]

... or any other basic life skill people would point and laugh?

So why doesn't the same apply to women? Why are women still expected and encouraged to being pathetic, and applauded when they are?

And why are women who aren't often regarded with suspicion?

TFO. I've noticed it too.

And fwiw I can do all those things, and so can DP. It's called being self-reliant, no??

as usual? I've never even seen your name before?!

ffs

oh ok I'm beginning to feel slightly better that I'm not the only one....

TFO, perhaps it's time to start a drunk thread?

Haha! Bollocks I say! My mother, alongside my father on equal footing used to run a building and construction firm until they retired, they were both site and project managers and I used to labour for them in school/college/uni hols.

As my mother says "There are no passengers on this ship".

I too can do all the things listed in the OP and so much more. I taught myself to plaster and wallpaper, to sand and revarnish floors, to wire and fit an outside light and to rebuild a pc, just examples of my many talents.

And so could any man or woman who wanted to.

I actually think that men get the easier ride when it comes to declaring they can't/won't do something (washing machine, noticing something needs cleaning, cutting the babies fingernails etc.)

However, I do think that in the modern world, if you use a computer (or smartphone), you should know how to keep it secure by updating it and that that is a basic skill. I also think that if you have a driving license, then you should be competent and confident enough to drive on motorways, change a tire, a bulb, or your oil. Male or female.

Mind you, I'm from a generation where as a 10 year old brownie I was taught how to change a plug, and sent out in pairs to prove we knew how to use a phone box to call home.

k999 I'd love to but unfortunately its back to school tomorrow so an early night for me

I'd think anyone, male or female who couldn't do any of those things was... not pathetic, but should find out... with the exception of maybe motorway driving, yes if you drive, get on the motorway, it's not that difficult, but I've no problem with people not driving.

DH can't drive, he's never wanted to learn. He does know where the trip switch is now, but only because if a light bulb blows it trips everything.
However I have known him spend an afternoon without any plug sockets working because the trip switch went and wouldn't reset. When I came home I unplugged everything, reset the trip switch, then turned everything back on until the switch went again, I started upstairs, did the living room then lastly the kitchen. The kettle was the issue.... only after I'd been through that whole rigmarole did DH think to tell me that it was turning the kettle on that had tripped the power originally!!!!

Aside from these not being 'life skills you do have a bit of a point. I know some people who think it's funny to act all sad and desperate as they can't do certain things. They are a mix of men and women - personally I know more men who need 'help' to do basic stuff. Mainly they can't be arsed to find out. I constantly help out a guy at work with computer stuff- and I am total technophobe- I help him cos I like him but I do think he's a lazy arse. There's loads of things that don't interest me and I don't know how to do, but would never flutter my eyelashes and say it's cos I'm only a woman .

I am still puzzling out what the OP means. If its that women parade that they can't do things as eg a badge of femininity, then yes, I agree, pathetic, but if it is a genuine lack of confidence in their ability, then we should be helping, certainly not pointing and laughing. It does annoy me that my mother who would be a millions time better driver than my dad, never learned, and he always poo-poo'd any suggestion that i made that she should - when he dies or is more disabled, she will be completely trapped, as there is no public transport from their village. I do all sorts of stuff, including driving to Poland when I want, but... do not answer the door as it is never likely to be anyone I want to answer to - it will be someone selling dishcloths or a chugger - so simply don't, as anyone I want to see will phone first.

I (a woman) volunteer at a computer cafe on the weekends - and believe me, there are a lot of men who cannot update their operating system. Computer literacy is not a given in all walks of life, but there are always people ready to help and share knowledge!

There's nothing wrong with admitting when you don't know something but I do admit I find women who continually flutter about claiming they are utterly hopeless at everything rather tiresome.

Not driving is only pathetic when you often need to get from A to B and the only possible way to do so is by car, or if you insist on being driven rather than using public transport or taxis. On recent and not-so-recent threads there have been many women posting whose DPs/DHs drive them about everywhere rather than them learning to drive and using the family car themselves. YANBU OP.

I had a friend years ago who had strict rules about man's jobs and woman's jobs....we were talking about the supermarket and she asked in genuine surprise "How do you push the trolley around on your own? Isn't it too heavy?"

Hello - I'm too pathetic to drive on motorways. Sorry.
Interestingly I'm okay with balancing on a cliff face 30 metres above the ground secured only by a small bit of metal shoved into a gap in the rock. For a days climbing I have the most anxiety about the drive to the crag. Some people just have confidence in their ability about different things.

Feel free to judge me and my feminist credentials

I don't do any of those things.

My life, my choice.

There's many, many more things I can do, which I think outweighs the stuff I don't do.

TheFlyingOnion - perhaps it is only my perception and experience, but I get that impression from some of my male colleagues. They seem to want the women in the organisation to be 'nice' but don't necessarily expect the same of the men. Also, some of my friends who work part time or in jobs with fewer responsibilities or are SAHM's also seem to have a bit of a problem with me - perhaps it's just me.

Well I think men and women who refuse to master basic life skills are pathetic, but not on a gender basis. I remember when I was at university there were several people whose parents used to drive up and tidy their rooms, bring them meals, take them shopping etc. I remember thinking 'useless prats.'

I do stare in genuine surprise at women who try and fit the wilting violet stereotype, but have noticed it's often a role played to attract a certain type of man. To each their own I guess. It doesn't hurt me if some women want to act like that, unless men start expecting all women to be like that.

But then pay no heed to me because I've done a lot of stupid and 'unwomanly' things in my time like change lightbulbs, walk through a city at night, stop to help a stranger and generally not live my life in the fear that every man who walks past me is a rapist.

I've been wondering about that this week OP, especially the bit about being regarded as a bit suspicious.

Have been looking at cars to buy for a while and since one particular model I'm looking at is a classic, I ended up travelling down the motorway for an hour and a two hour trip on Saturday.

Frankly, whoever I've been talking to about it (mainly women though) have treated me as a sort of travelling circus show with almost unison exlamations of 'ooh, I can't drive on motorways'

One man whose car I was viewing, at the news I'd driven two hours down the motorway had the audacity to point at his wife and say 'can you teach her how to do that' The Git!!

To which the wife promptly launched into a heartfelt explanation as to why she couldn't possibly engage in such risky behaviour as tackling a motorway.

Having ranted said all of that though, I often catch myself thinking 'oh, I better ask a man to do that for me' Especially since my split from exp last christmas.

Then I sit down and think it through properly (i.e why does it have to be a man, what skills do you need, etc etc) So far on a lot of things I've come to the conclusion that there is absolutely no reason why I can't tackle it myself even if it is seen as a male thing do to/domaine etc.

Talk about using a power drill, teaching yourself how to inspect a car, driving on the motorway, changing the oil in your car etc in a group of women though more often than not over half of them will start the chorus of 'oh no, I couldn't possibly' and looking at me funny like I'm an alien species.

Not sure what the point of this is but in my own experience it often feels almost like I've been 'brainwashed' into believing I can't do something or simply must wait for a man to do it for me.

Is it international Pigeonhole people week?

Dp could say all of those, except the motorway one.

I think those ideas about women are a bit dated OP? Surely most women our sort of ages can do all the things you describe. I think it's rather insulting to suggest that we're passive, useless creatures who need men for every little practical thing still.

I do understand your point. My Dad died 3 years ago and my Mum literally had no idea how to live. She had never handled any of the bills, didn't know how to do anything electrical around the house or even how to to change a lightbulb! She didn't know where any important papers were. She kept saying "I'm useless without your Dad, I'm a pointless person without him, I can't be without him". She was 53. She hasn't become a whole lot more practical now and it's really really trying.

But she is not a good example even of her generation let alone ours!

Ok the driving on motorways one annoys me tbh. I don't like to drive on motorways - doesn't mean I'm weak and pathetic, it just means I'm not a very confident driver!!

It's like calling someone a pussy because they don't fancy swimming in the deep end when they're not a confident swimmer.

There are some pathetic women out there, probably about the same amount as pathetic men.

So, I don't like to drive on motorways, I can because I have a full driving licence and a car, but I don't like to. It's boring, I worry how I would get 3 small DC out of the car on to the hard shoulder if there was a problem and I had a crash on the motorway several years ago.

I answer the door if I'm home alone, I'm single so if I didn't I'd never answer the door. I don't answer after about 8 o'clock though.

The trip switch...no idea what you mean.

Computer...could probably do it, I can read a manual so I guess I could work that out.

I'm pretty hacked off that my personal choices in life mean that, in your eyes, I am pathetic. Personally, I feel that having the ability to admit I don't like doing some things and making choices about who comes into my home and when, makes me a stronger person. However, if being a feminist means I'm supposed to be unable to express my feelings and preferences, then maybe I'm not.

Now do f*ck off, dear.

I don't drive on motorways. Neither does my db. We have somehow inherited an identical phobia. I work round it because where I live it is rarely an issue. I didn't realise this made me a disgrace to feminism.

manic, out of interest (and not if it's upsetting) do you know how your dad would have managed without your mum?

My parents have traditional roles in the home, they are both happy with this and it doesn't involve control on either part. I think my mum would struggle in the same way yours has, however I also think my Dad would struggle to keep the home clean and tidy, to plan and cook meals and to keep in touch with the extended family. I don't think that makes either of them pathetic, just inexperienced and happy with the roles they currently perform.