TO SAY Camerons Policies are in danger of getting all disabled people labelled as "Scroungers"

[ScousyFogarty]

That is a wicked thing do do and David Cameron beeds to apologise or more likely get one of his flunkies to say SORRY

nijinsky why do you keep coming back to this thread? you have made yourself very clear.
why not leave and let people who really will be affected by this have a moan, or do you just want to keep kicking people when they are down?

It's not unfair for you to hold these views.
You have the right to hold these views.
However, the terms of this board state that you are not permitted to deliberately offend and post inflammatory comments, and you are not allowed to make personal attacks (which you have against multiple people here).

Have I once posted comment on your lifestyle?

I don't know why it's considered desirable to emulate other countries' failings towards the vulnerable.

So, by that reckoning, the rest of the world is failing by not having as many of their citizens dependent on disability benefits as the UK? Holland and Australia are "failing the vulnerable"? I hardly think so.

More pertinently (and don't answer unless you want to obviously, as I have no intention to put you on the line), why would your children be affected by the proposed cuts if they are genuinely in need, and under the cuts, 22.5% of the British population would still be entitled to entitlement to state provided disability benefits?

Would your children not be better served by removing those from the system who are not genuinely in need?

In answer to your earlier question, all systems get reformed. Its the way this country seems to work. There are few systems in place that existed 10 years ago. I actully doubt they will reduce the claims by anything like 20%, but the target figure makes a good political soundbite.

ive a lot of family in australia and abroad they do not give harly from what i gather any help to people with SN evein in schools a lot of these "progressive" countries are abhorant towards disability so prefer to throw them away shun them from society this was not a debate on other benefits thats for another thread this is about the government going backwards in time and ostracising the disabled and in some cases making it impossible for carers who gave up their careers to look after their relatives for no wages saving the government billions more money if i dont stay home to care for DH and DS they would going back scarily not that far in time would be institutionalised thats if the government wants and even more costly to them and the tax payer answer you dont throw out the bath water and the baby , we do not have to accept abhorant policy that encourages the ostracising of a whole section of people and no one ever , ever said there were not other people in other areas just as needy no one said the pop was limitless but im sure if they hike up all the things that affect you personally (this is to anyone reading) you would be on here like a flash complaining so some people are paying more for their shopping and petrol... so am i . i also spent 40 years paying in and working before i needed to ever claim anything through no falt of my own im sorry we seem to be such a burden at a price some dont want to aford but we cant just disapear into thin air saying my DS or DH arnt disabled according to new policy will not actually give them both bacj their health or past life they will not suddenly become able and run marathons .how about practical obvious help ..retraining would be a good start nope mr cameron thinks disabled people shouldnt be allowed to makes no sense

In my everyday life, I'm happy, smiling, constantly positive, hiding bad news from my nearest and dearest until I have to share it. No-one other than my DH really knows how I feel about what is going on, we cry together sometimes.

If it offends anyone on here, on a disability thread, that I'm having a moan and complaining about the unfairness of life, tough. No-one is forced to continue reading my posts, skip them, ignore them, whatever.

I see nothing wrong in equality either. Do you also object to women having rights? Ethnic minorities having rights?

That's not to say that I believe everyone should have the same money. I recognise that for those that achieve well and work for their money then financial reward is fair. I'm not against inherited wealth either (death duties do boost the coffers after all!)

What I want is for those who are unable to boost their lot in lives themselves to be supported. I want all children in the state system to get an education, even if they do have complex additional needs. I want every person in this country to get NHS healthcare if they need it (you're forgetting my daughter isn't getting the cardiac care she needs - but then you probably approve of blue three year olds).

It's called being part of a civilised society.

i didnt say you Nijinsky you funnily enough are not the only poster on this thread with differing views

You cannot reduce the level of disability to some figure produced out of thin air.
The disabilities will still exist at whatever level they were before.

Other countries DO NOT have the level of support we do. Some disabilities are not recognised. Yes I do see that as a failing, particularly the Italian model.

Oh yes Glitterknickaz. I'm all for equality on grounds of race, religion, gender, disability, marital status and so on. But not for equality for everyone on no grounds whatsoever, or on purely financial grounds, whereby everyone is paid the same, no matter what they do or how hard they work.

If the overwhelming feeling is that the present system is failing you, perhaps part of the reason is because the net is spread too widely at present to target those genuinely in need?

You really think Holland and Australia are "failing the vulnerable"? Are there any countries in the world which have a system for the vulnerable that you admire, and if so, do you know roughly what percentage of people are considered disabled there so as to benefit from such assistance?

Nijinsky - Just wondering where the 22.5% of people entitled to disability benefits comes from? Because obviously this would be a frighteningly large number of people. I wonder if this is based on the 27% of people termed disabled in the UK minus the cut to those getting DLA?

If its not sorry. If it is lots of people who are classed as disabled are not rightly entitled to any disability benefits. Under the term of disability used by the Government, anyone who has a disability or health condition which would impact negatively on normal everyday life and their ability to carry out tasks, without the use of aids and/or medication, would be classed as disabled.

This would mean that someone who is blind is still counted as disabled even if they can carry out everyday tasks with the help of a guide dog and various technology. It also means that someone with asthma that is fully controlled by drugs would be counted as disabled.

Most people would agree that someone who is blind will be entitled to some help. But most would also say that someone with controlled asthma should not get disability enefits. And the person with controlled asthma wouldn't have ever be entitled to disability benefits.

Similarly my partner who has bipolar with psychosis - a serious mental illness - has it very well controlled with lithium and thus is not entitled to any disability benefits.

There are lots and lots of working people who have chronic illnesses that may be classed as disabled, but would never rightly be entitled to disability benefits.

If you look at the benefits pot as an entirety the number of people actually on disability benefits is rather small. You have to remember that there are other welfare benefits in existence not paid to those with disabilities.
Income support, JSA.... tip of the iceberg.
Money is leaking from other sources, JSA bill being hiked by so many public sector redundancies.

You've read my 12.05 post very selectively.
Have I said that I believe people shouldn't have financial reward for their labours? I don't want everyone to have equal money but I do want those who cannot earn their own to have enough to live on.

So not only Holland, but Italy are "failing the vulnerable?" By this reckoning, Britain is doing pretty well!

I have never heard anyone say that Holland is failing the vulernable before. Quite the opposite (I have Dutch relatives). The Dutch have an extremely progressive and generous social welfare system. It sits far higher up the league tables for various measures of social equality and standard of living than the UK. Even 20 years ago, Holland was far, far ahead of the UK in provision for the disabled in many ways. Measures to make everyday life easier for disabled people were taken in Holland a long time before similar measures were taken in Britain. There is perhaps a strong tenet of self responsibity that runs through the Dutch psyche, so perhaps we just have to accept that Britain will have far higher levels of disability than nearly every other country in the world, and insufficient funding for them - no government reform aimed at significant cuts in benefits has ever succeeded, has it?

You might find the following article on the Dutch system interesting (note how resources are concentrated on the most severely disabled).

www.watsonwyatt.com/europe/pubs/healthcare/render3.asp?ID=18967&issue=back

Have I mentioned Holland?

other countries as you well know have differing views on what disability actually is secondly not everyone who is able to claim do or this figure would increase not decrease added to this are as lesley33 say's there are already many many people who really should be getting help not necessarily money but dont saving them billions already we have supposidly the best health care sysyem in the world (usa is one of the richest societies in the world) yet people go round with huge tumors with little or no healthcare this is civilised??? because these so called civilised countries treat disability by ostracism is it a surprise they dont claim to have many disabled draining their resorces . as for countries like australia i can as ive a lot of family there tell you from personal experience they dont have much help governmentally as in for example sen

ahh so rather than put my DC in a home i should jet off to holland ty ill remember that

I think she should be made to read "holland" after that she might feel sorry for us

i read this is this what your refering to shoesy

www.tasgreetings.com/holland.html

thats it , will fry her brain

it's a bit twee though

trouble is this isnt holland or anywhere else were an individual country if i compare my DS (ASD,Dyspraxia, hypermobile) to my other DS or DD they tell you how terrible and wrong you are to compare ( one rule for one another for everyone else) so why do we constantly get compared to other countries if you want to compare surely you should compare to other countries to learn and improve from them their experience not compare your countries domestics to countries often that are more poverty stricken perhaps in worse ecconomic circumstances with political unrest ( ie other parts of eurpoe) unless you would like to get rid of disabled but have riots in the streets ect precisly because of how cruel and unjust the government treats them

it is a bit twee lol and i didnt feel like that myself but i totally agree with the last sentance

But... if you spend your life mourning the fact that you didn't get to Italy, you may never be free to enjoy the very special, the very lovely things ... about Holland.

People killing themselves over this already here

omg riven this is the bottom line but some wish not to see it its what ive tried to explain to some of the posters on here bottom line is i will if this is allowed to carry on not be able to care for my son and then the state will have to he will be desperately unhappy(he already has self harm issues due to bullying) and frankly if i was forced to do that i wouldnt be able to live with myself thats not dramatic its fact, having suffered depression i can see this will be devastating for many many people, its not about a bloody car or a few quid its a lifeline its food on the table its therapies the NHS dont provide , when i cant get a job well paid enough like mr cameron to pay for private nursing and healthcare and education, god i certainly would come off incapacity and dla tomorrow (i am not living it up on this piddly amount) it pays for a car that i wont have at all anymore if we dont qualify ,,,not because ds or dc are miraculously cured but they want to save a few quid,if either my DS and DH had their good health and/or i had such a fantastically paying job as to aford going private i would right now .

imagine you're four