TO SAY Camerons Policies are in danger of getting all disabled people labelled as "Scroungers"

[ScousyFogarty]

That is a wicked thing do do and David Cameron beeds to apologise or more likely get one of his flunkies to say SORRY

Well precisely Nijinsky, there you have a perfect example of how DLA is quite often underclaimed, rather than constantly abused as you continue to assert without any evidence.

Interesting how once the ideology has been challenged with real life examples some have to resort to personal attacks.

It is damned good on them. They both have such physical problems to face up to, more than the average athlete, and both are near the top of their game, rather than feeling sorry for themselves and complaining. You are not telling me that the middle aged men of working age who develop late onset diabetes due to lifestyle are entitled to help when these girls claim nothing other than the right to lead a normal life? The present system encourages a culture of dependency and disability rather than normal healthy robustness.

As I keep saying, if you have genuine need, you have nothing to fear.

I don't find it credible to claim the current system isn't abused, when just about everyone knows of examples. How much in the way of resources do you think there is to throw at a system which is abused, when it can be systematically changed more effectively?

But you are'nt the only people who are suffering how ignorant and inflamitory is that we didnt say we were trying to explain not that we have to but explain to you that YES were entitled to help NO people shouldnt lie YES some people do lie there are liars everwhere in every aspect walk of life CUTS ..imoral to cut benefits and ignore needs of the vunerable which is what you want to do DLA under these rules will not be targeted at the right people were trying to tell you that every waking moment of people like ME our lives are spent caring for the scroungers you wish to forget SAVING the governemt billions if we do it your way it will cost them more i will be in the same possition as RIVEN if you dont know about her case look it up , i will if my son whos moderate autistic and dyspraxic ( im forgetting my DH as hes a man and able to speak for himself) my son if we listen to you will have to be insitutionalised put into care i wont be able to aford to look after him thats the bbottom line , so glad its all fine with you and you think thats morally ok my son isnt doing sports weekends nor is my DH all systems are susceptible to abuse THATS LIFE to you dont throw out the baby with the bathwater thats just stupidity and thats what your saying they should do YES WE HAVE SOMETHING TO FEAR IM SCARED OF YOU FOR A START AND OF PEOPLE LIKE MINDED ,FEAR OF IGNORANCE FEAR OF NOT AFORDING TO KEPP MY CHILD . we have to live with this every day we are living on the breadline i never take my kids out ive not just my DH and DS ive two teenagers as well we dont have a holiday we dont go to the cinema we dont buy nice clothes we dont have anything to look forward to yet you say IM SELFISH i dont go out of an evening i dont drink or smoke i cant aford it every penny is spent on my bills and food stop telling us about a extreme minority and putting all of us in that same boat its insulting FEAR OF MODERNISATION of the benefits is naff all to do with it your blinkered and not listening weve told you people with cancer children and adults with autism in great need are to be taken off this benefit "Surely if you are genuinely in need of these benefits, you would have nothing to fear?" yes we have plenty to fear it makes me feel sick to my stomach

"I cannot see, why if you have such a genuine need for support, you would do anything other than encourage these reforms. But then I cannot see how anyone with any grasp of reality can confuse conviction rates for fraud with investigation rates, never mind actual rates. Because all examples of fraud are found out, investigaged and result in convictions. Of course they do. Or alternatively, reforming the system is likely to be cheaper and more successful in reducing fraud. "

No evidence of large scale fraud Nijinsky, as has been already shown. These cases appear to be a figment of your imagination, or possibly as a result of your own experience with your Father.

The reason that people currently receiving DLA are against these reforms has also been explained numberous times.

1. The reforms are not about need, they are about saving money.
2. The reforms are not about cutting fraud, they are about saving money.
3. The reforms will change the current eligibility criteria, so that those who are currently perfectly eligible will no longer be able to claim. That includes those who are permanently disabled and in power assisted wheelchairs.
4. Even for those who remain eligible to claim, it is highly likely that PIP will be paid at a lower rate than DLA is currently.

It's not difficult to see why some of the most vulnerable people, those who are unable to care for themselves in a way you take for granted, are worried about this.

Many will be forced to put their disabled relatives into residential care. That costs more. I can personally state that the bill for my family is quarter of a million.

Triumphing over adversity is all very well, not always possible.
I've stated before I am hearing impaired to the degree I can't hear a smoke alarm. I am hypermobile and get fatigued and get pain after travelling more than short distances. I've always worked, never claimed disability benefits because I've not needed to.

My children's needs are different and we do need the help.

Sorry, that's an annual bill, not a lifetime bill.

They don't want to claim; they don't want to be classified as disabled because they think it would make give them excuses not to achieve in their sport and in their lives (both also hold down jobs and one is a mother). Its not an example of "under-claiming", its a deliberate refusal to claim.

Not all disabilites are that easily overcome.

Disability Living Allowance is to help with mobility problems and with personal care (staying clean, safe, preparing food, toileting, moving within the house).

Neither your deaf acquaintance nor the one with diabetes appear to have these (from what you say), so neither would be awarded DLA even if they claimed.

Both are fully able to work, with appropriate minor adjustments, so neither would be awarded Incapacity Benefit/ESA even if they claimed.

Disability benefits aren't some prize for being sick. They are for very specific things.

And finally, I don't consider myself disabled either. I'm me, I just happen to use a wheelchair these days. I only use that word to communicate to other people that their usual assumptions won't hold when making plans.

I don't know if anyone has noticed but those of us living this life, facing the decimation of vital services and money to survive on... we're not changing tack. We're not finding multiple justifications for our standpoint. We're not finding minority examples of the extraordinary to justify our ideology.

Yes, we're having to justify our lives, the minutae of our existence because people just don't have the empathy to realise that we're dealing with challenging issues every hour of every day.... we have to do it in an official capacity and in a RL capacity too. That's why I am an open book, I have nothing to hide. That's why when I have been asked to post details of my everyday life I have done, because I want people to understand that those in genuine need are going to lose everything under this government.

If sticking to the topic of this thread makes some believe that I am blind to the needs of others and selfish (pot, kettle, black) because they're once again changing tack to justify their beliefs then..... yeah whatever.

Oh my father wasn't claiming fraudulently; in fact he was encouraged to claim as much as possible and commented often that he couldn't believe how much he was entitled to and how great it was. Can you see why I think the system encourages a culture of disability? What he should have done was to diet and exercise so as to avoid the lifestyle diseases of angina, heart disease, late onset diabetes, circulatory problems, etc.. All caused by his smoking and eating too much (OK maybe you argue he would have developed heart problems anyway but not perhaps in his late 30s).

The worst thing was the motability car. Why give a car to someone who never has to travel further than a mile and who always got a taxi/ambulance to hospital anyway and whose only hope for regaining his health is to do as the doctor told him and walk a mile each day? He didn't need a car anyway.

And I can assure you that there were a lot of men (and they nearly always are men) who were in exactly the same position as him - they used to have meet ups in the local pub to talk about themselves and their misfortune.

no you dont your just selfish Glitter lol lazy cow staying home looking after your kids TUT's does nijinsky have any proposals how we should pay for, being as were wallowing in self pity here , our Dcs or my DH come to that oh im on here btw cos the kids are on half term or i wouldnt be able to be just in case i get in trouble for being so selfish and lazy again having said that i guess my DS(15) should forget uni idea and get out to mcdonalds and he should keep us in the fabulous life style weve become acustomed to NOT

Neither do I nijinsky, but all the stiff upper lips in the world ain't going to cure my cancer.

I suppose I could do the decent thing and just top myself, save the country a few bob?

I can guarantee you that you would look me over and struggle to see why I'm entitled to DLA. You can't see the tumours in my lungs and liver. I do a damn good job of putting a brave face on it. My family frequently forget that I'm terminal, wishful thinking or good acting, I don't know.

I'm using my DLA to enable me to live as normal a life for as long as I can. That matters to me, as I want my 4 year old son to have as many happy memories of Mummy as possible, rather than just remembering a childhood with a sick mother who is housebound.

I'm not selfish. These reforms won't affect me at all, I'll be long gone before they get around to reassessing me. If by some chance I am still here and have to go through this process, I'll be doing fucking cartwheels, I assure you.

Yep, I have 'ishoos'. I don't actually consider myself disabled. Yes my husband has to wake me in the morning as I don't hear the alarm, he has to help me cross the road when there's no crossing as I can't hear traffic, in the event of fire he'd have to let me know the smoke alarm was going off, he has to pick up pans of water off the cooker and drain them for me as my wrists give way.... these are minor alterations to my life and they're inconvenient. They don't take over my entire life for me and affect the whole way I live my life unlike the needs of my children. They're never going to be able to just get on with it and make do.

Not all disabilites are that easily overcome.

I think their disabilities are anything but easily overcome. They are insulin dependent diabetics, they train twice a day and never eat anything they really enjoy. Yes, they personally do not require the help DLA is designed to provide, but with a different attitude, could quite easily do so, given the same set of circumstances.

Can I say how much I admire them? They earn my admiration, rather than demanding it.

It is perhaps fortunate that not everyone who can claim, does so. Or there would be even less for those genuinely in need.

I've had insulin dependent diabetes. I know how it is to have to schedule meals and injections. Not easy.

Are they though unable to work because they could quite easily physically attack a colleague? Unable to follow instructions? Unable to write? Easily distracted into behaviours such as hand flapping and making strange noises?

Even with the greatest amount of therapies and input one of my children may have all the above when he gets to working age. Or should he magically overcome his brain damage?

And wubblybubbly, sadly you are not the only person with cancer. You don't know what stages people are going through, some don't want others to know about it. My mother had lympathic cancer for the last 10 years of her life and tried to work and exercise. (she always thought it was contributed to by the stress of my father's illness - she always said that all the attention and help was given to him, with no thought to those just trying to struggle by).

You don't say nijinsky? What is your point exactly?

Once again, changing tack....

nijinsky - your father didn't get given a car. He was awarded HRM and chose to exchange it for the car. And just because your father chose to not help himself in the way you suggest it doesn't mean that everyone does the same.

And seriously if you believe this 'As I keep saying, if you have genuine need, you have nothing to fear' you need your bumps feeling.

well unlike your fat lazy father ( sorry you made him sound that way) my son DIDNT decide to be born autistic and my DH did decide to join the forces to protect YOU so more fool him i say, i used to be proud he was in the forces but this couldnt give a fig attitude makes me feel non patriotic and like he wasted his life and now nijinsky wants him to disapear so she can feel better about her sweeping statements and narrow minded logic and stereotypical comments your basing your whole ideology on your father (btw may be undeserving) but hes your father you dont have a modicome of respect for him so hardly surprising you have none whatsoever for the disabled no empathsy HAHA they say my Autistic son has no empathy but you have NO EXCUSE.

nail on head there I think smile.

smileandwave you are not the only person with relatives in the Forces.

Please don't put words in my mouth, particularly when they are offensive and abusive.

do you have no concept of how offensive your own words are then?