TO SAY Camerons Policies are in danger of getting all disabled people labelled as "Scroungers"

[ScousyFogarty]

That is a wicked thing do do and David Cameron beeds to apologise or more likely get one of his flunkies to say SORRY

Fraud is what they say to make most people think it is okay. In reality it's more like taking the bottom 15% (or whatever) and removing their benefits to cut costs. They knew in advance how much would be saved because it was how much they decided to save. Not how much fraud there was.

What the government needs to make this work is people gullible enough to hear that most people are cheats and believe it. As long as they can keep threads going on MN and other places about how "those cheats deserve no sympathy" they have won.

It's a good deal. Those parroting the government line don't even need to be paid 30 pieces of silver - they do it for free.

Let's face it though employers aren't going to like it if you have to keep taking time off to get your child to the numerous hospital appointments, or time off because DD has had to be hospitalised for her breathing (she was on the nebuliser most of last night, am now keeping an eye because we may still need to go to hospital today). Leaving at short notice because the school is sending DS home due to not being able to manage his behaviour.

I can understand why I am currently unemployable. However this means we need financial help to carry on caring for our children and save the state the quarter of a million pounds a year that we currently do.

MY mother used to be my respite but she died 4 years ago after about 3 years illness when yep you guessed it i was her carer too looking after my DH and DS then popping round to her mornings to get her dressed (she had someone come in to cook for her thankfully but wouldnt allow strangers to dress her ) and poppinng in to feed her lunch they dont come in at midday to feed the elderly and then returning after her evening meal to undress wash her before bed i was happy to do this , its my mother she deserves help and dignity but along with the stresses of caring for an severley disabled adult and a DS with autism it wa stressful and knackering .

Lets just say from my position I can fully understand why some parents choose to terminate the life of themselves and their dc. We need less pressure as bringing up disabled dc is difficult enough without any cuts to finances and services.

*ccpccp No - 20% is more likely an unofficial figure for fraud. The oft quoted 'only 1%' defence is a joke. Is there anyone out there who doesnt know someone who is on the disability when they shouldnt be? Fact is - they lost control of the system and people know how to play it, so the rules need to change again.

Until they can explain why:

. The UK has a lot more disability than similar countries.
. There is proportionally more 'disability' in areas of high unemployment
. Disability claims shot up over the last 10 years*

Yes, I agree. Although I feel that only the views of the disabled are allowed, and that anyone else is considered less important, and worthy of abuse for daring to have an opinion on this.

But seriously, in a Northern European country, how can 27.2% of people be disabled? Really? And its not, as one poster suggested, because we have higher standards of health care which enable more people to survive longer. The UK actually has very poor records for premature babies surviving for example compared to other Northern European countries. Although spending levels are similar or higher. And if the figure is that high, then surely it creates an expectation that people will move towards disability as they age and suffer common medical conditions associated with ageing.

What will happen if current trends continue and more than half of all people become disabled? People who know how to play the system and who want to become disabled are a drain on the genuinely needy and I can't believe that anyone would suggest that sifting them out is a bad thing.

Just how can there possibly be so many disabled people in the UK? What is the UK doing that is different from other advanced countries to produce so many disabled people? (is it to do with the "health and safety" culture whereby we can no longer produce a good proportion of reasonably robust people who can live without state assistance?) You have to question whether the benefits system plays an implicit part. Is anyone really guillible enough to believe that only 0.2% is the rate of fraud

I am going to be slated for this. And since I am not disabled, and am white, female and middle aged I am considered an acceptable target.

The thing is, I am pretty sure I could get myself to be registered disabled due to my asthma and problems with my health. But I don't want to!

'becoming disabled'
you speak like it's a lifestyle choice
I'm utterly bewildered by that sentiment.
I'm hearing impaired, I'm hypermobile but don't claim disability benefits. Doesn't mean I don't have issues with walking more than short distances, doesn't mean that I can hear the smoke alarm for instance.

The fraud rate, as I linked to earlier in an OFFICIAL DWP DOCUMENT is 0.5%, actually that's fraud and error so not just fraud.

It's not 'white, female, middle aged' people I have issue with. It's people who are utterly clueless to the situation people with disabilities and their carers face despite us shouting about it that I have a really big issue with.

I really don't know where these attitudes towards those with disabilities and the additional financial assistance required comes from.

It may be borne of fear..... or bravado that it may never be relevant to them. Well I hope it never is relevant to you. I wouldn't wish this level of fear on anyone.

It may be borne of some warped envy in which case I state right now you can take our money, every single penny, but take the disabilities too. I'd rather have an easy life thanks very much.

Nijinsky, do feel free to ignore every relevant piece of information posted here, in order to stick rigidly to your view that this is about fraud.

If it's just about fraud, why are they changing the criteria for eligibility, so fewer people can legitimately qualify?

If it's just about fraud, why are they also reducing the amount payable to those who still remain eligible under the new criteria?

I'm pissing myself that you think you could DLA with asthma. I've got friends with terminal cancer who don't qualify under the existing rules. So good luck with that. Do let us know how you get on.

But this is another thing..........why do some claim and some don't??
Our 4 younger children are disabled and I only claim for the youngest. My dh also qualifies but doesn't claim and so could I.

Its as if I am not allowed to comment because I am not registered disabled! If you confuse the conviction rate for fraud, the reporting rate and the actual rate, then you are living in cloud cukoo land.

'becoming disabled'
you speak like it's a lifestyle choice

Actually in the case of my father, it was. His health problems were entirely self inflicted due to lifestyle choice. And, secure in the knowledge that he would be looked after if he took the choice of doing nothing about it, he took no responsibility for improving his own health. Late onset diabetes, heart disease due to overeating, smoking and lack of exercise are very much lifestyle choices.

What on earth is Britain doing to produce so many disabled people? Why on earth are we not producing more healthy, fit and economically active people? I do sympathise with disabled people, of course I do, and it is utterly disingenious to say that any questioning of the area at all is taboo in some way.

Everyone has it hard. Yes, disabled people and carers face up to challenges that others don't on a daily basis. However I personally know of two people who committed suicied due to the day to day stresses of their jobs (in my profession). No-one ever speaks out for the people who keep their noses to the grindstone, suffer health problems in silence and just try to keep going. That is the sort of attitude that makes people feel utterly disinfrenchanised with living in the UK and why so many people's dream is just to get out of the country.

This is it though wubbly I know someone who has hr care and mobility for asthma, however my sisiter has had chronic asthma since being small with many a blue light to hosp but doesn't claim and neither did my mam for her when she was younger.

wubblybubbly if you are going to be so critical, could you at least be accurate? You have confused me with another poster. I have not said this is all about fraud at all. Thank you for your sympathies with my asthma and the fact that I have constantly had lung infections, pneumonia and pleurisy yet still try to work. I will not be trying to get registered as disabled, but I also know that there are plenty of people much healthier than me who are playing the system. I would never wish to claim DLA and become dependent on benefits.

The 27% figure has already been explained. It's not 27% of the population on disability benefits, but 27% of the population who suffer from chronic illnesses, ill health, disability etc.

It will no doubt include your asthma, if it is known to your employer. Just as my asthma was know to my employer, or my previous mental health problems. I never claimed benefits though, as most of those people including in those stats don't.

The numbers of people claiming DLA has remained pretty static, as has already been explained.

One of the reasons that DLA claims are higher in areas of high unemployment is because these people are more likely to need to claim to meet their financial needs. (Didn't stop Dave claiming though, I guess he took the view that they were legitimately entitled to claim so why not)

In addition, we know that people in areas of high unemployment and social deprivation also die earlier, I suppose there must be a correlation of poor health, higher rates of disability - or are these people faking their own deaths too?

The reason our disability rate is so high is because we use the social model of disability. So people in other countries who are classified as having ill health, will be classified as disabled here. But many people, like myself, may meet the definition of disabled,but aren't entitled to DLA.

"but I also know that there are plenty of people much healthier than me who are playing the system. I would never wish to claim DLA and become dependent on benefits."

How do you know? You can't possibly know the medical histories or what people are claiming and why.

If you understood about DLA you'd realise that you need to be ill with same symptoms for at least 3 months and expect to remain ill with the same symptoms for a further 6 months before you will even be considered eligible to claim.

Individual incidents don't count, no matter how severe. That is why people going through cancer rarely qualify, their treatment and symptoms varies throughout. Unless you're expected to die within 6 months, then they'll let you apply under the emergency rules.

Thanks for your sensible explanation Lesley. But surely the high figure, which increased dramatically over the last 10 years, was at least as much to do with Labour massaging the unemployment figures by moving people off long term unemployment benefit to disability benefits. And this also explains the higher rates in areas of traditional high unemployment. The true figure of unemployment would surely be terrifyingly high for any governement.

I also don't understand the now prevalent British attitude. I am pretty sure I could play on the asthma card (it can be pretty bad and I have been hospitalised) and I would be believed. I also know how to talk up a good case. But I absolutely wouldn't want to go there. Theres no way I would want to say that I met the criteria for DLA or nearly did. I want to be a health, robust, self sufficient person, not classified as disabled and spending my time trying to work out what help I can get. I want to stay as near normal and healthy as I can.

Along with many other people no doubt, before I was self employed, I did everything I could not to mention asthma or any ongoing health problem to employers Once you do that, you risk being classified as workshy and looking for ways out, like it or not. Its just common sense. Rather than take time off work for example for recurrent bouts of flu one winter, most employees prefer to struggle in.

*If you understood about DLA you'd realise that you need to be ill with same symptoms for at least 3 months and expect to remain ill with the same symptoms for a further 6 months before you will even be considered eligible to claim.

So then I just fake a bit of depression, or claim "nerve" damage following a bad back or sore neck, almost impossible to disprove the latter. In fact again, like loads of people, I had a really sore neck after a cycling accident for about 18 months, and paid for all my own physio treatment until it got so bad the hospital referred me. Would'nt dream of claiming it made me disabled, but I'm sure plenty of people do for similar. In fact, I know of two - both enjoy competing every weekend on their horses!

I live in an area populated with drug addicts, most of them boast about how they do not have to work and claim disability. My neighbour even has a motobility car and has no problems getting around.

There are many, many people who do play the system and it makes it much harder for people who are genuinely disabled like myself to claim.

I am on the higher rate of ESA at the moment, and have been too scared to try and apply for DLA, as I was told most people are refused, even though I use rheumatoid walking sticks as my wrists are so weak they can't support the weight on crutches.

And for the record, I would love to be able to have a normal job again. :(

nijinsky, the DLA figures haven't increased dramatically over the last 10 years. Where did you get that from?

Honestly, if you think it's so easy to fake a claim for DLA you should just take a look at the application form.

It's available online. I'd link for you, but since you don't bother reading them I can't really be arsed.

I would be happier if the disability claimants own doctor was allowed to report to the benfit systems judging panel. I dont know who the people whopass judment are . Qualifications etc. And how they assess me nervous breakdowns etc after a few minutes interview (This query has been raised countless times all over ze place.) The SYSTEM need to be more open to be even remotely trustworthy

I'd swap my cancer for 60 hours a week in a sweatshop on minimum wage.

I would also like to live some sort of normal disabled family life whereas ours is just so extreme!!!

An article here from The Guardian]]

The DWP have budgeted for 20% cuts, regardless of need. It's not a made up figures, it's what is actually happening.

I have no idea how I have managed to produce three disabled children. But I have.

Sorry if that makes your life so fucking hard.