Measles Outbreak?

[MoaningLisa]

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

I understand both sides of this arguement, but while some of you are finding it shocking that some people choose not to immunise, I find it quite shoking that some people think they have some sort of right to dictate to others that they shoud be vaccinating. It's just wrong.

We all have a right to decide what is best of our own children. It is not up to anyone else to judge that. I passionately believe in breastfeeding, but that doesn't men I have the right to call others who choose differently selfish. Why should it matter to me as long as my family has the benefit of it? Same as why should it matter to you if your child has the benefit of vaccination?

As I said earlier, my children had singles, but I paid a fortune for it. If I were to make the same choice now, that I wouldn't be using the MMR, I probably wouldn't be able to afford all three vaccines. That would leave my children unprotected to either mumps or rubella. But why should that worry anyone else if they and their children are vaccinated?

I'm a strong believer in vaccination. I did as much research as I could, from proper medical papers and studies, and decided to go ahead with the MMR for all 3 of my children.

I appreciate that some children are unable to have the vaccination for medical reasons. If that was my child, I would be upset and very worried about some of the attitudes shown to herd immunity here. Herd immunity is very real, and, to me, was an important factor in going ahead with vaccinating my healthy children. I don't believe we should have a "stuff everyone else" attitude. TBH, this attitude in society today is reflected in far more than vaccination, and makes me genuinely sad.

Fwiw, I am a vet, and my animals are vaccinated too. The principles are the same. I imagine that, heartbreaking as it is to watch a dog dying painfully of a preventable disease, it must be even harder to see a child suffer

bubble I don't feel a have a "right to dictate", but you breast or bottle feeding does NOT affect any child other than yours. People choosing not to vaccinate affects herd immunity and could have a HUGE effect on a child who is immunocompromised and whose parents had no choice. Those parents and children are relying on other people to vaccinate to help keep their child safe. It's not just about YOUR child if you choose not to vaccinate- that's the reason people are getting cross about it.

Bigkids- a voice of reason. Do all the antis citing side effects actually know what the chances are of getting them? I would suspect not and also suspect that the chances of contracting an actual illness are higher. Play the odds.

For anyone that hasn't had their child vaccinated, do you worry when you go on holiday abroad? Rates of immunisation vary outside of this country, it would worry me. Both my dds are immunised - someone at my university died from catching measles. At 19, just as they were getting ready for adulthood.

Re taking my children to India - WTF would I want to do that? Very odd question.

Re dogs being vaxed, several issues there. One of mine isn't vaxed as he's epileptic and the risk to him too great, the other two had single jabs some considerable time ago and I do not anticipate going for annual boosters. This, or non vaccination, is the same for a lot of rescuers, you'll find - not the follow the book RSPCA types but those of us "at the sharp end". You'd be surprised at the number of rescues which don't vax their charges until they have a home to go to either. It was recently said to me by a rescue owner that she'd explain to the adopting public why this is but she has enough of a job explaining to Joe Public the stray problem, the need for neutering and so on, she just hasn't time or energy for anything else. (I'm inclined to agree with her here!).

There is scientific evidence wrt dogs which, like human vaxes, indicates side effects and problems. Many vets will now NOT recommend annual boosters and studies indicate that the effects of vaxes last far longer than has previously been thought.

Additionally, my first dog, a 10 week old puppy, contracted the very disease he had been vaccinated against, a couple of weeks after the jab. The vax was a live virus.

Lady, although you and I are coming from the same side of the argument, I wouldn't have put it quite as you did... :o (but as I said, I leave it to others to get stressed about this issue).

exoticfruits, I've had measles too and I bet I can give you a run for your money age-wise! :o

Whoever called people with my views "yogurt knitters" and said something about organic whatever... please. I don't do organic, I don't do green, I don't do recycling, I'm to the right of Jeremy Clarkson when it comes to being a petrolhead, I don't do woo and spiritualism and herbalism and all that shite... how fecking unyogurt knitty can I get! :o

Re taking my children to India - WTF would I want to do that

Quite right-stick to countries where most parents protect your your DCs with responsible vaccination-don't risk disease among those who don't in 3rd world countries!

I find it quite shoking that some people think they have some sort of right to dictate to others that they shoud be vaccinating.

Not really, they want to safeguard all DCs, especially those who have medical reasons for not having it done, rather than the luxury of 'principles'.

Val I rarely disagree with you, but I, and most vets (even the homeopathic "woo" ones) generally vaccinate. I now don't vaccinate against all diseases every year- we change our vaccine protocols according to the latest research. But there continue to be reports of lepto in dogs whose vaccines have lapsed for a short time, and serological studies have shown that after 15 months immunity to lepto wanes dramatically, so, given that the disease is also a zoonosis (my ex-boss almost died of it himself!) I will continue to vaccinate against it yearly, and encouirage my clients to do the same. Parvo is still very much in evidence too, although the latest research says that every 3 years is sufficient for vaccination to be effective. I personally have never seen an extreme vaccine reaction in my 16 years in practice- one or two dogs that seemed to have mild transient reactions is all. However, in my first year of seing practice we had a parvo outbreak, which saw us with 11 cases of parvo in two weeks. 8 out of the 11 died, horribly. I couldn't bear to see my own pets die so horribly, or to have been responsible for advising someone else to take that risk. If owners know the risks and choose not to vaccinate, it is up to them, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't give them the facts/ latest findings.

I wouldn't let my cat go without innoculation, so it hardly makes sense to let my child go unprotected!

Right, haven't read the whole thread and not really interested in arguments about whether or not MMR is good or bad. Just need someone to tell me when DD should have her booster. She's 3.5. If I try to get a GP appointment next week to get it done will she better protected against a measles outbreak?

Immunocompromised children are at greater risk from all sorts of illnesses though, not just the ones we have a vaccine for. Jooly, I see your point, but even so I don't think any parent should be judged as selfish for not taking a risk with their own child for the benefit of someone elses child.

The majority of people I have come across that have chosen not to vaccinate have chosen to do so after doing some research on the subject and making an informed descision. Better to do that imp than to just rock up at the docs and allow a disease to be injected into your child while knowing next to nothing about it.

There is a risk with vaccinating, no matter how small, it's there.

Val, interesting what you said about the dog annual boosters and some vets not reccommending them, my puppy had his first lot and we have had the letter asking him to go for his next lot. The vet makes money that way. I don't really want him to have them, just a gut feeling not based on anything, but I will do a bit more research now.

Nothing to do with it, exoticfruit. Just that India is one of the last places to appeal to me - though I'm sure you don't REALLY think what you just said anyway.

Anyway, I've nothing more to add have I? No point in me keeping coming back to say the same thing a hundred different ways. Nothing will change MY opinion on the issue and I don't seek to change YOURS.

And there lies the difference.

I've kept polite (I hope) and a reasonable sense of humour throughout this and I don't want that to change so I'm bowing out now. Have a nice evening all, I'm taking a wander over to Pets and Chat. :)

bubble- please see my post above. I can assure you, vets DON'T vaccinate in order to make money- as far as making money goes, we make far more on other procedures, vaccines are one of the things we keep the costs down on in order to encourage people to vaccinate. It really depresses me to think that people see it like that, especially when I fork out to have my own two done yearly.

chippy "Do all the antis citing side effects actually know what the chances are of getting them? I would suspect not and also suspect that the chances of contracting an actual illness are higher. Play the odds."

first of all, I am not an anti-vaxxer. dd1 had all her jabs. I only stopped with her at the point where it became apparent that the medical community were not actually interested in what was going on with her.

secondly, yes, thank you. I am well aware of the chances of side effects. I live with the results daily. I am playing the odds, wrt dd2. and it remains safer for ehr to not be vaccinated.

RamblingRosa - round here because MMR take up low they have been suggesting first MMR at 12 months and second at 14 months in order to quickly get immunity and to try and get kids fully vaccinated before they move elsewhere etc.

DS2 had his second jab last week. he is 20 months. Would have done it earlier, but he had terrible croup and then tonsillitis so was waiting for him to be well. We had a letter home from ds1 and dd's school last week urging parents to ensure vaccinations up to date, after the school was advised of possible measles epidemic by the HPA.

A friend has a 10 month old daughter. Is going to France in summer and she has arranged for her to have MMR now, with another at 12 months. She is a paediatric nurse. I think the reasoning is that by the time they go to France, her dd will have had 2 doses.

I cross posted with you Jooly, I did read your post and pay attention! I just mentioned it to dh who says he wouldn't allow me to not get the dog vaccinated anyway , but I am thinking it's something I should find out more about now.

When I said abroad I meant within the EU. Rates are dropping in Europe, although one of the lowest rates of uptake is within London.
Even if you don't want to take your kids long haul they may want to go as a gap year - what then?

if dd2 wants to go abroad on a gap year - well, she will be an adult by then, and able to make up her own mind about vaccines (assuming she has not had them in the mean time)

I will not stand in her way, at any point, if she can explain reasonably why she wants to have them, having fully researched the issues, and the implications for her health.

mum765

Was just putting my views across as someone with a child with comprimise dimmune sysytem and pointing out yes chances are measles would kill dd or be itu job .But then even a cold can do that .

Just when some people get sniffy becuase dd is not vacinated .They make snap judgements .My other 3dc are vancinated dd we tried but they do not work she can not make antibodies hence chickenpoxs 7 times everyone meant itu .

Ideally i would love for those who can vaccinate to do it becuase it is her best chance,

but also except parents have their own reasons for not doing .Though if dd catches measles I may have something to say to people .Like i did to the parent who forgot to tell school that there dc siblin had chicken poxs and sibling not had and opps she was in school infectious and gave to dd .I do admit to when dd was home from itu taking some pictures down and explaining in the playground just why they need to say if their child been in contact with it .

You won't be able to anyway when she is an adult silverfrog and the doctor wouldn't tell you-it would be confidential between your DD and the doctor.

Mmmm.....I didn't know this.

Maybe I should see about having the vaccination as well, the MMR wasn't about when I was a kid, and since BOTH my kids have had mumps this year (despite having the MMR!) and go to nursery, AND I am pregnant, it might be a good idea.

in response to pookas post! They are giving MMR twice in two months nowadays??!

Isn't it less than 2% of children that actually need the booster? Does anyone know?

Reading this makes me so glad I did the singles programme followed by a blood test.

exotic - I meant (as I said in my post, and I think it was reasonably clear) that I would not stand in her way at any point if she could demonstrate full understanding of the issues - she might be 10, or 12, or 16.

obviously once she actually has Gillick competence, then it is up to her.

I also said that once she is an adult it is entirely up to her.

Sorry-I thought that you were saying you wouldn't stand in her way as an adult.