Measles Outbreak?

[MoaningLisa]

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

Vallhala if you're still here - are you a politician by any chance? Because you seem to be avoiding the question.

Your travel wishes and desires are nothing to do with this debate but I for one would be interested to know IF you decided to to visit a country such as India where vaccincations are recommended, would you and your children have them?

Or any other non-vaxers, I would be interested in your views on travel vacs...

Human catapult - this is exactly why I think that those who can have the vaccinations should. To protect those that can't or are too young.

we do not visit countries with high risks for any illness, dancergirl.

we do travel reasonably widely, but I cannot give dd1 anti-malarials, or even most simple remedies such as calpol.

this, of course, is as a result of vaccination in the first place, so please do not now try to swing the argument back to "oh, well, isn't it nice you live in such a civilisd country where you can hide behind everyone else who vaccinates"

For those of you citing the herd immunity argument, how do you explain the outbreaks in countries with >95% immunity? Eg. Saudi Arabia, Spain, Belgium, Germany.

Also, those of you worried about your children who are too young to be vaccinated contracting measles - well you should thank the vaccine for that because mothers with naturally acquired immunity are able to pass maternal antibodies on to their children that last longer than vaccine induced antibodies. You being vaccinated means that you are unable to protect your child when they are most vulnerable.

Those of you talking about the dangers of mumps and rubella to your children - please go and read about the diseases. The info is on the NHS website. Ditto polio - there hasn't been a case in the UK since the early 80s and only 1% of polio cases are paralytic polio and usually the paralysis is temporary. I am always shocked by how strongly people argue for vaccination when they know so little about the diseases they vaccinate against.

Oh, and just to really stir things up - those who love to spout misinformation about Andrew Wakefield's study may find this interesting

" 'What it means is that the study done earlier by Dr Wakefield and published in 1998 is correct. That study didn?t draw any conclusions about specifically what it means to find measles virus in the gut, but the implication is it may be coming from the MMR vaccine. If that?s the case, and this live virus is residing in the gastrointestinal tract of some children, and then they have GI inflammation and other problems, it may be related to the MMR.' "

Don't normally post on these threads but.............how many unvaxed adults are there then, that have never had measles and too old to have had a jab?

I saw one poster mention it, but how many of all the pro vaccine people here are either fully vaxed against measles themselves or already have immunity form catching it?

Just wondered.......

trouble is mum7g5 .

There is no vacination against the common cold and chances are that will be what kills her one day .But refuse to wrap her in cotton wool

I can except parents have their own choices why not and some that opt for the single vaccine and think thats a good way and cases like silverfrog where a valid reason not .

But if dd caught it I may well have something else to say about it .

maxy.

I have had the measles jab when dd was dx as has all members of my family so we can redeuce the risk of us passing to her.Had rubeela when was at school age 11

bubble- didn't mean to lecture! Will get off my podium now re dog vaccines

I honestly accept that some children should not have the vaccine, just as there are some animals which we don't vaccinate for similar reasons. I'm not outraged at people who don't vaccinate for genuine reasons, and I accept that people have the right to decide whether or not to vaccinate their child. It's just that personally I think for most healthy children the benefits outweigh the risks (based on research, not because I am some sort of sheep!) And I do feel a sense of responsibility towards the more susceptible members of society, that's all.

Measles survivor here btw. I'm not that old either and my mum remembers all her siblings and their friends having it too and can't remember any problems with it. There were still measles parties going on when we were little!

Also, interesting to look at the HPA figures for measles and see how much the number of cases and fatalities had reduced prior to 1968 when the measles vaccine was introduced.

bubbly
I said it earlier.
Herd immunity doesn't prevent localised outbreaks. It does prevent sustained transmission in the community. I really don't get why people on here are trying to insist that herd immunity doesn't exist. It's not a myth - it's a mathematical fact!

Well, I survived going to school every day in the boot of my mum's friend's estate car, not strapped in. There were 8 of us in the car, and none of us came to any harm. Everyone did it then.

Doesn't mean I don't use car seats and seat belts with my own children, though. Things move on, there are things you can do to minimise risks. Some people have been harmed by air bags, but noone seems to be up in arms about them, as they probably save more lives than they damage- it's about risk management, really, is it not?

As I posted down the thread I decided to delay vaccinating my kids because of their egg allergy, hoping that herd immunity would protect them.

However having done a LOT of reading about vaccines I don't blame any parent who makes an informed choice not to vaccinate. The vaccine damage compensation exists for a reason and no one has the right to dictate to parents whether they should vaccinate or not as vaccinating is not without risk.

What I'm wondering is whether there is a developed country in the world which doesn't vaccinate its children against measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, diptheria, tetanus etc? Surely surely if there were strong evidence against immunising, ONE of these countries would say, 'hold on, there's something dodgy here'. Or do ANY of these countries recommend the single MMR jabs -or is this something that only the UK don't do? Be interested to know what the international consensus is.

My very bright 2.5 year old cousin had the MMR jab and within 24 hours stopped talking, making eye contact, playing with toys. Vacant was the word my aunt used. Such an affectionate little boy who now won't cuddle his mother, shows little emotion. Go on and dare tell me there is no fucking link. The medical profession are an absolute joke. They point blank refuse to provide an explanation. The heartache my family has gone through, and many many other families who have no voice. No one hears us, no one wants to listen. If you are unsure please do your research. My aunt has met doctors who refuse to give their children the MMR themselves.

Murphy, I believe that natural herd immunity exists but I don't think vaccine induced herd immunity is that reliable - obviously shown by the recent outbreaks. For a start, just because you vaccinate 95% of children does not mean that all those people will be immune (vaccines aren't 100% effective) or that they will have lifelong immunity because vaccines don't offer lifelong protection. So there are lots of vaccinated people out there who were either never immune in the first place or their immunity has waned over time.

On the other hand, if you have 95% of a population naturally infected by a disease then yes, the spread of the disease is interrupted. Actually, I believe it's much less for naturally acquired infection - 70% ish iir.

Well, yeah, naturally acquired immunity is often better - but at the price of a helluva lotta people infected and a fair few of them getting sick and dying of course. And also vaccines differ in their immunity, it depends on the age structure of the population, when they were vaccinated, for which disease etc etc etc. You can't just throw out a number!!!!! Either way, definitely a social good to have lots of people immunised against measles.

No comment on the new US study that supports Wakefield's findings then?

I have limited vision due to my eyes being affected by measles. I have had one operation on my eyes as a child, and expect to need another one in the next ten years or so. This operation won't improve my eyesight, it will be cosmetic, to make my eyes look more normal. (I currently look as if I have one glass eye and one normal one - one has very limited vision and isn't really used, according to the optician.) I will probably be all but blind in my fifties.

If you have no medical reasons, such as immuno deficiency for not vaccinating your children, please do so. It is not just a bit of a temperature and a few spots, there are serious medical complications.

"Go on and dare tell me there is no fucking link."

There's no fucking link. And you're a fool.

The US government have paid out compensation to MMR damaged children. No vaccination is risk free.

Not sure what you meanby 'vaccines differ in their immunity' Murphy. Do you mean their effectiveness? Also, how do you feel about mass vaccination against not so dangerous diseases such as mumps and rubella? Diseaseswhich are much better caught in childhood so they do provide lifelong protection rather than the temporary immunity from vaccines which then leaves people vulnerable in adulthood when potential side effects are more serious.

Egg, I'm sorry to hear about your cousin.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Wakefields findings get supported by more than one study in the near future. Last time I looked, (admittedly a long while ago) his was the only study that actually looked at the children like Egg's cousin whose parents believe that their children have been damaged by the MMR.

I chose not to give the MMR because of families like that, not because of Wakefield. How can the medical world not listen to these families after all the debate there is surrounding MMR? Maybe if they were listened to, many of us that refused MMR would be convinced otherwise and the herd immunity everyone wants would stand a chance of happening.

But they still recommend the MMR, right trixy?

I'm trying to find out if ANY country in the world doesn't recommend it? Or if any country has dropped polio, diptheria, pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus. Bubbly seemed to be saying that we don't need to worry about them any more, so is there ONE country which has done so??? I just reckon that there must be pretty convincing evidence that vaccinating is a pretty effing good idea if every country in the world has signed up to it.

Spouting your usual nonsense again Bubblemummy. That is an old article dating back to 2008 about the research from 2006 which was never published. Even Walker said it didn't prove anything.

There hasn't been a case of polio because the vaccination rate is very very high.
It wasn't that long ago children were in iron lungs and people like Ian Drury was crippled by polio as was Dick Francis's wife Mary. The 21,000 cases of parylitic polio in 1952 in the US alone.

In the last big rubella outbreak 10s of thousand of children were stillborn, so much for natural immunity.

Not sure where you get the fact that vaccinated mothers do not pass on their immunity as that is clearly not true

Looktowindward - you're a fool if you can't accept that some children can react badly to vaccines.