Measles Outbreak?

[MoaningLisa]

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

Of course i am on the provaccination because whichever way you look at it vaccination is less of a risk than the disease unless you want to rely on everyone else vaccinating. My son's chickenpox put a immune suppressed friend's life in danger because we saw her the day before the spots came out. I would never have forgiven myself if she had been harmed. She has managed to survive her leukhemia and is a lovely healthy teenager now, but it is children like her that really need to be protected.

"whichever way you look at it vaccination is less of a risk than the disease"

but you're missing the point - no one has any idea if this is true

silver - double standards here, shocking double standards

in particular bruffin, no one has any idea if it is true with regard to their child

only a very few will know about the likelihood of a negative reaction - most of those who will react show no evidence of this until they do react

"It rather condescending of you to tell a mother that she doesn't know what hopitalized her child!"

my God silver you're right

Bruffin - don't you realise this is what ALL pro-vaxxers say to mothers/parents who talk about their child's vaccine reaction? You ALL say to the mothers - you have no idea, you're hysterical and wrong.

Oh my goodness the hypocrisy is unbelievable.

Very true silverfrog!

I wouldn't let kids into nursery or school unless they had been vacinated.

Why amotherxplace? If you believe that vaccines protect your child then what do you have to fear from an unvaccinated child? Also nice that you would discriminate against children who are unable to have vaccines. What a well thought out idea!

your children, amothersplace? or any child?

Bruffin - you were talking about Wakefield talking nonsense earlier.

How very dare you - when not only are you poorly informed, your arguments contradict each other and contain a fairly generous dose of hypocrisy.

Am I right in thinking that in the USA you have to prove a child has been vaccinated before they can start school??

there are exemptions, tryingtobe. it varies according to which State you are in.

"same old conspiracy nut bags"

I just spotted this as well from someone else

what is wrong with the pro-vax brigade - why do you feel this need to abuse, insult and deride without even bothering to look at the peer-reviewed research?

it is wilful

absolute wilful ignorance

Worrying as that is taking away any choice from parents......

Yes, tryingtobemarypoppins. I wonder how many of those promoting the idea of compulsory vaccination would have been happy with the government forcing them to vaccinate their children against swine flu. Only 21% of healthy under 5s took up the offer of the vaccine so I'm thinking that the compulsory vaccination idea wouldn't have gone down so well with quite a few parents!

Americans do seem far more pro vaccination in general......not sure if that's true but it comes across that way. Did rates of MMR take up fall in the states as it did here after autism fears??

I've read this from the beginning now, but I just can't buy into this conspiracy theory thing - to say there is a collusion between big pharmaceuticals, government and health officials? No way! Drugs are withdrawn all the time if they are either shown to be unsafe or ineffective. Look at thalidomide, and I forget the names, but there were headlines about drugs for high blood pressure and kidney cancer being largely ineffectual recently.

For me personally it defies belief that doctors and nurses, are being wilfully mislead by corrupt powers that be into vaccinating our children despite it being dangerous or ineffectual. As the nurse was doing my eldest's MMR we were discussing the controversy (9 yrs ago) and she said 'I wouldn't let my grandchildren have it if I didn't think it safe'.

Are there really just a few 'honest but poor' scientists that know 'the truth' if only the rest of the world would listen!? Oh, and only silverfrog and gooseberry and a couple of others know the truth as well - only the rest of us are too stupid to read the papers.

I believe the science behind vaccination - yes there is a slight risk, just as there is with paracetamol or anaesthetic - but the risk of the vaccine is less than the risk of the disease itself.

I do hope anyone still reading this thread has the sense not to be sucked into these conspiracy theories.

Curly - I'm sure you do read the papers but I'm sure you haven't read the scientific evidence which points to a link, or indeed considered the issue very seriously at all.

You are a lovely person to be unable to conceive of the fact that large corporations act in a way that will help them to make more money. Do you know how hard they fight not to withdraw or admit liability? Do you know about Vioxx, for example? Are you aware of the tactics used by pharmaceutical companies towards parents of vaccine damaged children? Are you aware of the threat to pursue them legally to the point of losing their homes? Are you aware of Merck's attitude towards doctors who question the "one size fits all" approach to MMR - "We will destroy them where they live?" Are you aware of the litigation liability accepted by the British government? Are you aware of the Lancet/GSK connection?

When you say things like "the risk of the vaccine is less than the risk of the disease" - that's something you don't know, and no one knows. That's something you believe, it's an opinion, based on incomplete information. I don't know either, and certainly no one knows with regard to their own child.

There certainly are a few honest but poor scientists who don't "claim to know the truth" - as the pro-vax brigade do - but want more research so that the truth can be established.

Smallpox has been eradicated in the UK, largely due to a hugely successful vaccination program a few generations ago. I don't need study to prove this

• it's common knowledge.

We were on our way to eradicating measles as well - could have happened by now if Mmr uptake had been higher. Outbreaks started soon after the Andrew Wakefield scare.

No, it couldn't have happpened. Didn't you read the thread? Are you aware of the smallpox epidemics that swiftly followed vaccination campaigns? Are you aware that a minority of the population was vaccinated? Haven't you anything to say about the points in my post?

Yes, I'm not living on a completely warm & fluffy world - I do realise that these things go on- and I know that pharmaceuticals are responsible for Bad Bad things - probably films like The Constant Gardener don't even scratch the surface!

BUT- vaccination - per se - as a science works. I see it every day- everyone I know ( except one person) has had all the standard jabs. No terrible side effects - but we all know that there is a tiny risk of side effects. It is my choice as a parent to take this risk for my 3 children, rather than put them through the diseases themselves which are certainly no picnic and certainly are worse than a cold.

I read the other thread on 'vaccinations' as well and I was quite shocked - in the circles I move in vaccinations are just SO accepted. No one would ever question them. We kind of all feel a bit of a twinge just before- but in general I feel I have to have faith in the medical industry as modern medicine saves so many lives. My own mother woul have died 10 yrs ago if it wasn't for her cancer treatment.

Yes, there are horror stories and I would never ever doubt a mother of a vaccine damaged child - as it is a risk of vaccines. It is a really hard subject, but that is why there is medical compensation - we don't live in an all perfect world. But I don't want to return to the days when polio, smallpox etc were rife and claimed the lives of so many children - and they did. The memory of the children that died a hundred or two hundred years ago may be gone - but the childhood mortality stats live on in testament to them.

I don't doubt that that if I were mother to a vaccine damaged child I would be doing all the research that you ladies do- and be calling for more medical studies into the failings of vaccination. However, I hope I would stop short of damning the entire vaccination program which has saved so many lives.

If you don't doubt the parent of a vaccine damaged child, why do you doubt the thousands of parents of children who say they were damaged by MMR?

Who has damned the entire vaccination programme?

You've created a straw man argument there. I'm not sure anyone on this thread has done such a thing or would do such a thing. Andrew Wakefield wouldn't for a start. So I'm not sure why you would post this?

He asked for more research. Not much to ask, really. For that he was condemned, vilified, smeared, sacked, defrocked and separated from his family for three years. Why do you think this happened?

perhaps I should finish my own question

Why do you think this happened, if it wasn't to shut him up - and if the government and pharmaceutical companies were genuinely interested in the possibility of this type of adverse reaction?

Well tbh, I do think certain people have been calling into question the benefits of vaccination full stop on this thread. I'm not accusing you gooseberry, necessarily, but people have been saying that vaccinations weren't responsible for the reduction in these diseases, but that it was better sanitation and nutrition that were the main benefactors. Again, I am not accusing you, but I definitely read that 'measles was on the way to dwindle away to nothing anyway , just from improvements in sanitation' on this thread - I can't find it as this thread is 30pgs long now and I don't know how to quote anyway.

No matter what personal circumstances you are in you must see the bigger picture. I am allergic to penicillin - a doctor prescribed it to me 5 yrs ago having not checked my notes. I googledit when I got home thank god _ I am quite careful and the name rang a bell with me - if I'd taken it I could have died. Doesn't mean penicillin is all bad just because it had this effect on me - penicillin is one of the most important medical discoveries of all time. But as I said we don't live in a perfect world. Therefore I do, maybe slightly, know what happens when medicines don't work as they should.

I'm sorry if my view is simplistic and unknowledgeable to you - I'm afraid I have 3 children and a life to lead, I cannot read all the papers on this subject - that would add up to a research degree. I'm a graduate myself with a working knowledge of lies, damned lies and statistics- but I just wanted to put an average person's 'bigger picture' opinion on this thread.

I can't engage with you on the details of the Andrew Wakefield case - I read the reports as it was of general interest to me. This will REALLY annoy you, but the general lay-persons view is that he was a dodgy scientist - paying children at parties for samples??? Joking about it at conferences? No controls? Selecting your 12 best subjects? In the pay of parents wanting to sue vaccine manufacturers? No doubt you'll tell me that's all wrong - but that is what came out of the trial. There are very good reasons scientists are not allowed to behave like this! he was rightly struck off- doctors have been struck off for far less!

I really didn't like people boasting that they were leaving their children unvaccinated in the knowledge that everyone else was vaccinating and so their children were unlikely to get measles anyway ? (Valhalla I think)

The fact is I think we are very lucky to have the vaccinations available to us in this country - the benefits outweigh the risks, but it is almost a victim of it's own success, in that it has eradicated so many of the killer childhood diseases, people have forgotten what an amazing godsend they are. I do not worry a about a multitude of childhood diseases- none of my 3 children will be left paralysed by polio, brain damaged by measles, dead from smallpox, diphtheria, MenC etc My daughter will NEVER have to worry about cervical cancer. That is AMAZING. the list goes on.

Just come back on because I've had some real thoughts about just how I do put my faith in modern medicine. And anyone who knows me knows I am not a reckless mum - I am you're average 'mildly overprotective but trying to get over it so children have some freedom' mum.

So, ds1 at age 6 hAd scarlet fever- still a notifiable disease but not as scary as it was 50 yrs ago. My mum had it as a child and was in isolation in hospital for 8 wks. Told by GP that this was not s serious as it used to be, but they still recommend a dose of antibiotics to stop the secondary symptoms which can be devastating. And are in fact what one of the Bronte sisters died of.

Well despite my allergy to penicillin, I went ahead and gave him this as I believe the benefits of the antibiotics in this instance outweighed the risks of him having the same allergy to penicillin as I did.

Let me assure you, I was on the lookout for the same allergy symptoms I had; agonising itching & painful rash, swelling, face swollen to a giant tomato, friends calling me mr blobby etc. had he developed these, I would have known immediately what it was - and no, he wouldn't have had antibiotics again ever.

But he was fine. You have to be intelligent, vigilant and careful- but in my opinion, just not having of the vax is not an option.