Measles Outbreak?

[MoaningLisa]

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

I'd be very upset if any child was damaged or killed as a result of catching a VPD off my kids, not a risk I want to take if I can help it. I know some people can't help it, too contraindicated for their kids, but I'd expect them to be the most pro-vacc for the rest of us who do have that choice.

omg, Valhalla. You always come across as so high and mighty ultra high standards re animal care, but you mostly don't believe in vaccinations for cats and dogs? That's a hoot, that really is. Totally undermines 85% of the other things you argue for re pet care.

dunlurking - are you seriously expecting me to go and book and appointment for dd2's jabs, off the back of being told that in 14 years time she woudl not be able ot study various subjects at university?

have you read any of my posts?

have you any knowledge at all about mitochondrial disorders?

if it happens that, due to her health, dd2 cannot be a teacher of a midwife etc - well, so be it. I see no reason to put her at risk now, for somehting that might never happen anyway. what a bizarre position to take.

dione: it didn't take long at all. my posiion throughout the thread had been that my children are at a higher risk than average. it didn't take much to work it out - am not sure why you insisted on a one word answer, tbh. the information was there all along.

exotic: you are being disingenuous. of course the reason for travel makes up part of my answer. yes, right now I have the choice not to go to India. and I have answered you as to that - it is not worth the risk to dd2 of vaccinating her for the sake of a holiday. I am not sure what on earth else you want me to say on this. I am not hiding behind anythign. I have asked again and again what other situation you woudl like me to answr, but you have not been able ot come up with one. there is always a reason for travel - if the reason for the travel outweighed the risk to dd2, then we would go. and as I said earlier in the thread, if there is ever a situation where dd2 is at more risk form not having the vaccine than she is form having it, then we would vaccinate her. I don't understand why you cannot understand that this is a fluid situation.

I have also answered the hiding behind herd immunity question - I stated earlier that we will be going to europe a little later this year, but not vaccinating dd2. how is that hiding behind herd immunity, when they are in the middle of one of the biggest outbreaks? I have also pointed out that, if dd1 was not disabled, we would probably not be living int he UK anymore - but we cannot move around as we used to, as we do not have the private means to prove that we would never, over her lifetime, claim any benefits for dd1 - that tends to make it hard to enter various countries.

Alistron, there are large outbreaks of whooping cough even in areas with high vaccination rates. Eg. The US. It hasn't disappeared at all and is increasingly seen in adults.

Exotic, why are you talking about the 19th century? Why not have a look at the HPA figures and see for yourself just how much the disease incidence and fatality rate decreased with better sanitation, healthcare, widespread use of antibiotics etc BEFORE 1968 when the measles vaccine was brought in. you are severely mistaken if you think that vaccines do more than any of those things. The difference that the vaccine made was a drop inthe ocean compared to what those things did. Why don't you take your vaccinated child to a part of Africa that has no running water, poor sanitation and very little food and see how much your vaccines help you.

Bruffin, not using Rose coloured glasses at all - just basing it on my own experience and my mum's. In the majority of cases children recover with no complications. Hospitalisation could be due to diarrhoea and risk of dehydration which obviously, if treated is not life threatening. It doesn't have to be pneumonia. In any case, pneumonia could result from a bad chest infection but we don't all run around panicking about that.

I don 't think the inabilty to become a nurse/midwife is a valid argument. Occy health will just give you MMR as an adult if you can't prove your vaccination status.

I havent read the whole thread but I am permanently deaf in one ear after having measles when I was 6[long before any vaccine was available]

Of course santitation, better diet etc played their part, but you are kidding yourself if you think they got rid of smallpox. Mass vaccination got rid of smallpox.
Also disease doesn't pass by those with a high standard of sanitation-it didn't stop people like Earl Snowdon getting polio as a schoolboy. I think that people are very selective in their arguments.
I wouldn't want to take my DC to a part of Africa without running water etc but I sure would get them vaccinated if I had to. It might not help, but it would give some protection rather than none.
If your DC hasn't had tetanus what are you going to do if they have a nasty cut in the garden?-say they don't need a shot because 'my house is clean and my DCs are healthy?!'
People are very quick to think they can do without modern medicine. My DS is only here today because he had a week in hospital being pumped with antibiotics straight into the vein. I didn't like the thought of it all in a small body, but it beat the alternative of death!

the tetanus issue is interesting.

I owuld initially look at wound health etc before panicking, for a start - not all cuts/injuries require a tetanus shot.

I was bitten, quite badly, and deeply, by a dog last year. I did not need a tetanus shot (or any other) - I discussed it with the nurse, and in fact it was she who suggested I keep an eye on it first of all, and return if anythign untoward. which, of course, fitted happily with my outlook, but it was not me who suggested holding off.

neither of my girls has, so far, had any wound that has come even close to requiring even thinking about tetanus. and, as with anything else - the situation is always fluid. yet again, if it ever came to a situation where the jab was less risk than the alternatives, it would be given.

Of course you can get a job as a nurse or teacher if you are not immune from measles - you would just have to sign a disclaimer saying you are aware of the risks. If you do not know your status, they can do a blood test.

If it was my DC I wouldn't risk it for a minute silverfrog-they would have the tetanus jab. I wouldn't be 'keeping an eye on it'.

Silverfrog, please tell us where this centre of excellence is where a nurse advised keeping an eye on a dog bite wound with no need for a tetanus jab in an (I assume) unimmunised person so that an investigation can be launched. By the time you returned if you'd noticed symptoms of tetanus developing, it'd be too late. You were lucky, and the person who advised that (if that is really what they said ) is negligent.

Of course, if you were fully immunized against tetanus during childhood, you wouldn't need a booster anyway, as per current guidelines. I suspect that is what the actual situation was. It very much wouldn't be the correct advice in someone never immunized against tetanus.

I suspect that silverfrog was already protected too. I can't see someone taking such a lackadaisical attitude with a DC who had never been vaccinated.

SurreyDad you can't get on a midwifery or medical course without rubella immunity in case you catch rubella and pass it to a pregnant woman and her unborn child. You either show evidence of rubella immunity or are given 2 doses of MMR as the nhs doesn't have any single rubella vaccines.

Silverfrog I said I sympathise with your position. Would totally put you in the "immune problem category" as far as your dd2 is concerned and am very sorry to hear of your dd1's disabilities/vaccine history. Just wanted to highlight to other readers that lack of vaccinations cuts out some choices of future careers. In the USA it would cut out schooling altogether I gather - no vaccine, no school place, although I assume they must have medical exemptions.

Sorry Silverfrog - meant to say - I have read every single posting of yours on this thread!

All you have to do is prove rubella immunity though, so if you were that worried you could hop across the Channel and have it done.

Mumps is the only 'problem' because Merck don't produce it any more although they are under pressure to do so.

Exotic, you can have a tetanus jab at the time of injury or be given an inhection of antibodies. If you have a serious enough injury they will usually give you a tetanus jab regardless of your vaccine history. In any case, tetanus is very hard to catch. There are 7 cases a year in the UK, cases not deaths and usually in the elderly. The last tetanus case in an under 15 was around the year 2000 and the girl had been fully vaccinated - she recovered.

Also, re smallpox, I think you'll find that quarantine played a large part in its eradication too. In fact, it was the main method used in areas with no or limited access to the vaccine.

Poor old Edward Jenner-he comes up with something to rid the world with smallpox and it is all a complete waste-it would have happened anyway
It may be hard to catch tetanus but are you really going to play with your DCs life because you won't have vaccination? If they are not protected, have a deep cut that might be infected I wouldn't want to take my chance with 'it is very rare'.
If your DC goes off to university and there are cases of meningitis are you going to say 'don't bother dear'?

Since the Hib vaccine was introduced in 1992, cases in children under five have dropped by 99 per cent from about 800 cases per year to 12 cases per year in 2008

Don't tell me that this is due to other factors than the vaccine-1992 isn't long ago

(It all seems rather like the DCs of Jehovah Witnesses-blood transfusion refused due to parental beliefs.)

It is something strong to me as my dad became diabetic after getting measles, he never had any jabs and got it and now is diabetic, he has to inject insulin everyday.

Also those saying 'its my choice whether to vaccinate or not blah blah blah'

Do your children go to mainstream schools? Do they also mix with different ethnics in their classes like foreign children? Who possibly havent had their vacs? If they catch something or bring an illness over with them from their country, your child will not be immune? how would you feel then?

I caught measles when I was 9yrs old, I was hospitalised for 2 months, and it has permanently damaged my eyesight.

"Also, re smallpox, I think you'll find that quarantine played a large part in its eradication too. In fact, it was the main method used in areas with no or limited access to the vaccine."

This is ridiculous, there are cases of people catching smallpox from people in isolation. You need to have negative pressure rooms etc. control measures. Rate fell because people were using cow pox to provide some immunity, there was also some "herd immunity" because so many people had had the infection. It is expected if it came back instead of 5 people being infected from each infectious person, it would be 10 from each infectious person. if you are interested. Of course you may not believe this, as of course scientists are all biased unlike folk tales.

I also have a relative who nearly died from measles (weeks on an iron lung in the 1970s).

I am still waiting for someone to comment on the Hib vaccine and the drop in numbers-something that can't be written off the way they like to write off smallpox.

Aaaah, so it's just coincidence that smallpox was eradicated at the same time as the vaccine programme. Is that true for diphtheria too? And I've not seen any kids knocking around with polio recently either.

All these diseases that no one gets any more 'disappearing' by and large after the introduction of vaccine programmes.

It's all down to sanitation, nutrition and quarantine....obviously.

Which is why I would like them to explain what has made the difference if not the Hib vaccine, alistron1, when it was only introduced in 1992.