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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to have had an abortion and feel ZERO shame or regret

1000 replies

GetOrfMoiCase · 26/05/2011 13:00

In AIBU because it is a popular topic. I know I am not being unreasonable.

Thread is in response to a report I heard on the news yesterday which was shamefully presented, regarding abortion access.

There is a thread on MN currently about it www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1222273-Chipping-away-at-abortion-rights-govt-appoints-Life-as-sexual-health-adviser

Apparently there is a twitter thingummy going around 'I had an abortion' for people to discuss guilt free abortions.

Just thought it would be appropriate to have a thread on here for people put a positive side of abortion.

My story: got pregnant 5 years ago. My dd was 10. I was in a relationship of 6 months duration and had recently started a new job. Condom failure. My partner and I agreed that we didn't want a baby, I booked an abortion and had it without a backward glance. No emotional fall out afterwards. No guilt.

OP posts:
GetOrfMoiCase · 26/05/2011 23:10

oh learning this is all so raw for you. Bloody hell. Sad Thank you for being so gracious and posting that. I am so sorry Sad

OP posts:
fifi25 · 26/05/2011 23:13

Ive had 3 miscarriages and almost had a termination with my 3rd dd. I dont think you can compare a miscarriage to a termination.

Op sound to me like she thought through her decision, knew it was right, hence has no regrets.

EggyAllenPoe · 26/05/2011 23:16

i think statistically the %age reported of PTSD/ depression following abortion is the same as that of PND. before you point out post-abortion psychological isses are underreported, so is PND, and a woman in a situation where she considers termination is, one would think, much more likely than average to have PND should she have the baby.
There are psychological consequences either way.

Not only do many women who have abortions not suffer severe trauma as a consequence - the majority, it seems, do not.

if people are finding it hard to nail down what is wrong with the op's bold assertion that she does not feel regret or shame, it is perhaps because there is nothing wrong with it!

learningtofly · 26/05/2011 23:17

Getorf - its ok, it really is. It's quite nice to be able to talk about it.

I just wish people would walk a mile in other peoples shoes before judging them.

Although I had no choice it was still my signature on the consent form, therefore my decision. Life just isn't as black and white as some people think it is.

GetOrfMoiCase · 26/05/2011 23:35

This Caitlin Moran article from a couple of years ago was mentioned upthread, thank you for reminding me of it - it makes very interestng reading imo (I have c+p'd the article as it is behind the Times paywall)

On Wednesday, More4 broadcast Travels with My Camera ? A Matter of Life and Death, a ?personal journey? by the journalist Miranda Sawyer. This was heralded by a piece in The Observer, written by Sawyer, explaining the purpose of her quest.

Sawyer?s dilemma has been that, until recently, she had been a dyed-in-the-wool, card-carrying, pro-choice feminist. After the birth of her son last year, however, she began to have doubts about the ethics and logic of abortion. ?I was calling the life inside me a baby because I wanted it,? she wrote, after visiting picketed abortion clinics in America. ?Yet if I hadn?t, I would think of it just as a group of cells that it was OK to kill. It was the same entity. It was merely my response to it that determined whether it would live or die. That seemed irrational to me. Maybe even immoral.?

Later she explained that: ?When you?ve experienced . . . pregnancy and birth, and the fantastic beauty of the resulting child, it?s hard not to question what a termination does, or is.? In a nutshell, since becoming a mother, Sawyer has found herself ? while still ultimately agreeing that women should be able to have abortions ? becoming more troubled by the pro-life argument.

It?s odd, because, since I had children, I?ve found myself becoming much less troubled by the pro-life argument. Of course, that echoes that old, black-humoured mum joke, often heard in playgrounds on wintry February afternoons ? ?What do you think should be the cut-off point for terminations?? ?I dunno. Secondary school?? ? but also reflects how many issues still remain within the abortion debate.

Last year the Guardian columnist Zoe Williams wrote a wholly clear-headed and admirable piece examining why women always felt compelled to preface discussion about their abortions with an obligatory ?Of course, it's terribly traumatic, no woman enters into this lightly?. She went on to explain that this is because, however liberal a society is, it assumes that, at its absolute core, abortion is wrong, but that a forgiving State must make legal and medical provision for it, lest desperate women do a Vera Drake down a back alley and make things even worse.

Abortions are never seen as a positive thing, as any other operation to remedy a potentially life-ruining condition would. Women never speak publicly about their abortions with happy, relieved gratitude, in the same way that they would about, say, leaving an abusive partner ? despite the fact that this impacts much, much less on their lives than an unwanted child. There are no ?Good luck with your morning-after pill!? cards. People don?t make jokes about it ? despite the fact that all the truest jokes are about vexed topics and cover every other subject, including cancer, death and God. Yet however much a single, childless woman isn?t encouraged to discuss her positive abortion experience, this pales in comparison with mothers who then have abortions. Our view of motherhood is still so idealised and misty ? Mother, gentle giver of life ? that the thought of a mother subsequently setting limits on her capacity to nurture, and refusing to give further life, seems obscene. Just as mothers must pretend that they love other people?s children, never wish to be violent or get hog-whimperingly drunk, wear a cowboy hat and ride one of those mechanised rodeo bulls, so they must pretend that they are loving and protective of all life, however nascent or putative it might be. They should, we still quietly believe, deep down inside, be prepared to give and give and give, until they simply wear out. The greatest mother ? the perfect mother ? would carry to term every child she conceived, no matter how disruptive or ruinous, because her love would be great enough for anything.

I have problems with that assumption. For one thing, I believe something very elemental and, in the most academic sense, nonChristian. One of Sawyer?s biggest postmotherhood dilemmas over abortion was trying to work out where ?life? begins with a foetus, and concluding that if abortion could occur before ?life? begins, that would be a ?right? kind of abortion. But given that both science and philosophy continue to struggle to define what the beginning of ?life? is, wouldn?t it be better to come at the debate from a different angle entirely? For if a pregnant woman has dominion over life, why should she not also have dominion over not-life? This is a concept understood by many other cultures. The Hindu goddess Kali is both Mother of the Whole Universe, and Devourer of All Things. She is life and death. If women are, by biology, commanded to host, shelter, nurture and protect life, why should they not be empowered to end life, too? I?m not advocating stoving in the heads of children, or encouraging late abortions ? but then, no one is. What I am vexed with is the idea that, by having an early abortion, a woman is somehow being unfemale and, indeed, unmotherly. That the absolute essence of womanhood and maternity is to sustain life, at all costs, whatever the situation.

My belief in the ultimate sociological, emotional and practical necessity for abortion did, as I have mentioned before, become even stronger after I had my two children. It is only after you have had a nine-month pregnancy, laboured to get the child out, fed it, cared for it, sat with it until 3am, risen with it at 6am, swooned with love for it and been reduced to furious tears by it that you really understand just how important it is for a child to be wanted. And, possibly even more importantly, to be wanted by a reasonably sane, stable mother. Last year I had an abortion, and I can honestly say it was one of the least difficult decisions of my life. I?m not being flippant when I say it took me longer to decide what work-tops to have in the kitchen than whether I was prepared to spend the rest of my life being responsible for a further human being. I knew I would see my existing two daughters less, my husband less, my career would be hamstrung and, most importantly of all, I was just too tired to do it all again. I didn?t want another child, in the same way that I don?t suddenly want to move to Canada or buy a horse. While there was, of course, every chance that I might eventually be thankful for the arrival of a third child, I am, personally, not a gambler. I won?t spend £1 on the lottery, let alone take a punt on a pregnancy. The stakes are far, far too high.

Ultimately, I don?t understand antiabortion arguments that centre on the sanctity of life. As a species, we?ve fairly comprehensively demonstrated that we don?t believe in the sanctity of life. I don?t understand why pregnant women ? women trying to make rational decisions about their futures ? should be subject to more pressure about preserving life than, say, Vladimir Putin.

However, what I do believe to be sacred ? and, indeed, more useful to the earth as a whole ? is trying to ensure that there are as few unbalanced, destructive people as possible. By whatever rationale you use, ending a pregnancy 12 weeks into gestation is incalculably more moral than bringing an unwanted child into this world. Or a child that, through no fault of its own, would be the destructor of a marriage, a family, a parent. It?s fairly inarguable to say that unhappy children, who then grew into very angry adults, have caused the great majority of mankind?s miseries. If psychoanalysis has, somewhat brutally, laid the responsibility for mental disorders at parents? doors, the least we can do is to tip our hats to women aware enough not to create those troubled people in the first place.

In short, while I am now packing something just short of the contraceptive equivalent of Trident, if I ever did have to have an abortion again, I would like to think that it would be something unlikely to provoke a moral dilemma in anyone, least of all me. I would like to see a time when abortion is considered an intelligent, logical, humble, compassionate thing to do. I would like abortion to be considered as, perversely, one of the ultimate acts of good mothering.

OP posts:
SuchProspects · 26/05/2011 23:36

GOMC Great subject for a thread, I appreciate you regret the tone of the OP. To keep with your intent and not join the bun fight:

I had an abortion in my 20s. We used contraception but were somewhat careless from time to time, in hindsight it's surprising it didn't happen sooner. It wasn't a hard decision for me. It wasn't a "light" one, but I didn't agonize over it. I knew I did not want a child, that I would not be able to take up the job I had just got, and that my relationship with DP would be unlikely to survive. My mother had two unplanned children and I think it really ruined her life, so I definitely wanted to avoid following the same path. I talked to my DP and he was on the same page.

I don't feel shame or regret about the abortion. I felt a bit of shame about us being careless, and we were a lot more careful after. I don't even wonder about the possible child I terminated, I had a think because of this thread, but couldn't picture a person. My only real feeling about the abortion was relief - so glad that we have the ability to stop a pregnancy before it becomes a child and lives are blighted.

swallowedAfly · 26/05/2011 23:39

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michelleseashell · 26/05/2011 23:39

I'm sorry learningtofly. I had one I didn't want too but it was for different reasons. It was a relief for me too. Not in a selfish way. Can't really explain it. Anyway, me too is what I wanted to say. And sorry that you were in that situation.

michelleseashell · 26/05/2011 23:46

'In the same way I knew I didn't want to move to Canada or buy a horse.'

I know it's serious but I did smile at that!

swallowedAfly · 26/05/2011 23:48

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learningtofly · 26/05/2011 23:49

Thank you for your replies to my posts - I feel bad for hijacking!

My circumstances were unusual Tbh but I still think there should be discussion about this. Will I feel more guilty for ending a life than watching a child grow up with significant medical difficulties knowing that I caused that and could have altered that?

Only time will tell. At this moment in time it feels like the right decision to have made

swallowedAfly · 26/05/2011 23:49

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GetOrfMoiCase · 26/05/2011 23:55

Please don't apologise for hijacking.

I am personally bowed down in gratitude that you haven't likened me to Stalin.

I don't know the ins and outs of what you have been through, but it sounds utterly awful. And so so recent. It must seem so raw to you still.

OP posts:
thumbwitch · 27/05/2011 00:00

Getorf - I think YANBU to have posted this. It didn't sound like boasting/bragging, it sounded like you were putting the other side of the story - which IMO is important for anyone potentially facing this situation themselves to hear.

I'm another who had a termination in my teens. I was too young, I could see having a baby then being a huge mistake, it was the right choice for me. It wasn't even that hard a choice at the time - I knew it was the right one for me then. I had and still have no regrets. Occasionally I think "oo, that baby would have been X years old now" - but by occasionally I mean every few years. I have used my "it was right for me, no regrets" story when friends have been faced with a similar situation to give them the other side of the story and let them know that it doesn't have to be guilt-laden/awful. My doctors were very sympathetic, I was counselled prior to the op, it all went well, and it was a massive relief.

Why is it wrong or insensitive to say so? What is wrong with letting people know that they don't have to feel awful about it? It doesn't make it any easier, it doesn't make each individual's choice really any easier because they don't know how they're going to feel afterwards; but it does let them know that they aren't necessarily going to feel guilt/shame/regret, and that the relief they may feel is relatively normal.

I'd say that's worth knowing.

learningtofly · 27/05/2011 00:03

Getorf - Stalin? Stalin? That was ridiculous!
Why do we all believe that everyone experiences things in exactly the same way? Why can't we accept that we all experience life differently and respect that?

You shouldn't have to apologize for feeling how you do. I was neither anti abortion or pro life before what happened and I still believe in choice for all women :)

michelleseashell · 27/05/2011 00:05

You didn't hijack anything! I'm glad you felt you could post. For me personally, I'm proud of my decision. I know that's similar to what getoffmycase said in her original post and I hope no one shoots me down for saying it because it's so close to the bone for me. But I desperately didn't want to do it and it took every bit of strength I had and strength I didn't know I had to go through with it. I'm proud that I went through that to do the only thing I had left to do to keep my baby from suffering. I have an idea of what you've been through and I know well done isn't the right thing to say, but you have my respect definitely.

And I don't want anyone to feel that what I'm saying is any more or less significant that your experiences or that I have more of a right to feel one way or the other. We should all be equal in this and we SHOULD all be able to talk about it.

GetOrfMoiCase · 27/05/2011 00:07

No, I was being facetious when I said Stalin, but someone up there said I was the same as Ratko Mladic, murdered of 8000 innocents, and why should I consider myself different because I had a cervix in the way.

Learning you are remarkable in your empathy and intelligence in understanding that. You of all people on this thread could be excused for being angry by what I have posted, as what you have experience is still so recent.

OP posts:
michelleseashell · 27/05/2011 00:09

You know, I've only been on Mumsnet a week and look what I've got myself into! I'm glad I joined though. This is a really important subject to me.

thumbwitch · 27/05/2011 00:10

Michelle - you poor woman, what a horrible choice to have to make and yes, whilst "well done" isn't exactly appropriate, still it's right to say it to you for being strong enough to do it.
Learning - you too.

GetOrfMoiCase · 27/05/2011 00:10

My abortion was in 2006. I am far distant from it now, however at the time the procedure itself was awful. I was very very fortunate in that the nurse in theatre was so kind. I had spoken to her about my reasons (new relartionship, moving miles away, new school for dd, new job, coming up to final dissertation, a golden career round the corner) and she held my hand as I went under anaesthetic and was there when I came round. I did feel bad at the time, however I can truly say since I left the hispital I have not had any regrets. That doesn't make me a hard cow, I don't think. It was just the correct thing to do for my me and my loved ones.

OP posts:
GetOrfMoiCase · 27/05/2011 00:12

Michelle - I am sorry. It is very hard to know what to say, well done is wrong, I am sorry is all wrong, I would like to say 'respect' but Ali G ruined that one Grin

OP posts:
GetOrfMoiCase · 27/05/2011 00:14

Oh god that read as so flippant, what I meant to say is thank s very much for sharing that, like learning it must be so difficult to rationalise your thoughts. And welcome to mumsnet (blimey, rispeck again, I didn't go on threads like this for years Grin)

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learningtofly · 27/05/2011 00:19

Well I like to think I am remarkable ;) but sadly not (been on here years but namechanged when I posted about my situation)

What really gets on my tits is a "one size tits all" solution when it comes to abortion. It doesn't. Every situation is different emotionally and physically.

What happened to me was unusual but essentially the choices were the same, continue or don't continue. Who am I to judge other people? How I know I wouldn't make the same decisionas Getorf in her circumstances? In my shoes whose to say you would chose differently to me?

learningtofly · 27/05/2011 00:22

Lol I have tits on the brain - obviously I meant fits all!

michelleseashell · 27/05/2011 00:22

Thank you thumbwitch.

Like getoffmycase, the nurses were just amazing to me. I don't know how they do it. They had so much compassion.

Afterwards, I have never regretted making that decision. I don't feel guilty, not one bit. I'm not much into religion but I think if there was some kind of omnipresent being, that they would know I didn't act lightly or selfishly. I don't believe anyone would.

And getoffmycase, you got on with your life. Eventually so did I. Terrible things happen but come on, we must live to fight another day right!! Cue the star trek music or something

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