Does anybody actually know anyone who had an ELCS just because they thought they were "too posh to push"?

[InAStateOfReflux]

Just watching the Wright stuff. One of the hot topics is that apparently ELCS rates being performed by the NHS are rising because people are deciding they are "too posh to push" and it's costing the NHS lots of money.

They are suggesting that these women should be offered psychiatric counselling to bring them round to the idea of having a vaginal birth.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I was given an ELCS because my dd was breech and was in fact strongly advised to (not given much choice in fact) and anyone else I know who's had one has been offered it because of significant trauma or complications in a previous birth.

I have never however met a woman who insisted on one on the NHS just cause she didn't fancy pushing it out of her fanny, and I doubt the NHS would go with this anyway tbh...

And if they're talking about women who have real fears and emotional distress regarding child-birth, then yes of course lets force the hysterical wench to push it out, does she not know how much money she's costing the NHS?

Oh how I love the way the media portray these issues...[sigh] Yes perhaps ELCS rates are rising and perhaps this should be addressed in some way, but to suggest it is for such fickle reasons is so juvenile. Perhaps it is the HCPs fault and not the whole female population who are apparently too cowardly to push their babies out?

I suspect anyone who is truly too posh to push would be going private eg The Portland or similar as I don't think the NHS would agree.

Have not managed to read the whole thread, but I also saw this in the papers the other day with the headline 'too posh to push'. I hate media reporting of this kind.

I had an EMCS last year. If anyone said 'too posh to push' to me (either directed at me, or when talking about any CSs in general) I would punch them.

What pissses me off is that people think having a CS is easy. Easy?! Let's shove a needle in your back, cut through your stomach while you're still awake then give you a helpless baby to look after immediately afterwards, while you're completely paralysed and in pain for days. Yes, that's really easy.

hmm, I had an EMCS with my first DC, easy labour but got to hospital at 8cm to find out he was footling breech and his foot was already down.
There was no real medical reason for me to have my second DC as a c-section however having already tried labour once and having had a quick recovery from the emcs I basically thought I couldn't really be bothered to go thru labour again when a c-section (this time planned) would be so easy.
So much like WidowWadman I based my request on reading NICE and RCOG guidelines and not just "some internet forum" at my 16 week appointment. The Reg agreed I could have a ELCS and said we could book the date at my 32 (I think) week appointment i just stated I wasn't going to change my mind and would they book me in now. Which they did. This was all on the NHS. I don't mind if people think I am too posh to push, i was lucky I got the birth I wanted.

MoreBeta, sorry, I'm still in the bollocks camp. She's mistaken, or lying.

someone who without sound medical reason chooses to have a c/s needs their head examined!! looking at the too posh to push some women have a c/s to keep their ladybits tight. firstly i think maybe after 6 10lbers it may go bucket like but really, its designed to spring back, don't be lazy and do kegals. 2. if its a vanity thing i would like them to see my caesarean belly a lovely overhang that nothing but surgery would get rid off. so have a v/b get an quick tightening by a surgeon if you that concerned about it. instead of having a c/s then a massive tummy tuck to fix that.

c/s are hardly convenient either. you can barely walk for the first few days, then your stomach muscles are fucked, hence overhang; and you can't drive for 6 weeks. if people think a c/s is all easy no pain way to have a baby they are mad. from a pain point of view i would rather have a full blown 24 hour labour than at least four weeks pain, plus like me you could get contractions after the birth.

"someone who without sound medical reason chooses to have a c/s needs their head examined!!"
Why?

"you can barely walk for the first few days," rubbish
"then your stomach muscles are fucked, hence overhang;" rubbish
"and you can't drive for 6 weeks." rubbish
"than at least four weeks pain" rubbish
"plus like me you could get contractions after the birth." I think this is normal for c-sections or VB

You know when you have a c-section and they make you wear TEDS (those special compression stockings) because you are at an increased risk of deep vein thrombosis?

Do you really think they would then offer liposuction to someone who was already at increased risk of deep vein thrombosis? When DVT is a contraindication for suitability of liposuction?

I second the "bollocks"

BagofHolly - "She's mistaken, or lying."

Well she was a pregnant woman. You know how they get towards the end.

Agree with Libra -

Also, whether your belly looks awful afterwards is not only down to method of delivery - for what its worth, I shed about 5 stone after my CS, with the help of breastfeeding, healthy eating and exercise and didn't have an overhang, but actually a better body than before the pregnancy.

I know a few women who had vaginal births and still have bellies as if they were 5 months pregnant (rest of body back in shape) 2 years later, so whilst the overhang may be a risk, it does not have to happen with a CS and may still happen with a vaginal birth if you're unlucky enough to have skin which doesn't go back after being stretched into oblivion.

I don't doubt that some women have pain after the CS, but that doesn't have to be true for everyone, and if you use painkillers to avois the pain building up, it shouldn't be a problem.

I found walking and being active helped my recovery. I know this is only my experience, but it is as valid as the one of women who suffered and couldn't walk 5 meters for a month. I believe though, that it also has a lot to do with expectation and how you feel about having the CS in the first place.

Anyway, as I said earlier, your recovery obviously will be harder than after a straightforward vaginal birth. But unless someone can guarantee me that I would have one, I'd rather not take the risk of the damage a complicated one can do.

Neither am I interested in going through labour just to end up with another EMCS - I've got that t-shirt and personally found the CS part of my daughter's birth much more enjoyable than the pain, helplessness and fear of the hours prior to that.

i was just speaking from my experience.

I had an ELCS at my request because I didn't want to give birth vaginally.

However, it is a bit more complicated than that. I have T1 diabetes, which meant I needed to be induced at 38 weeks due to increased risk of stillbirth.

My baby was measuring large (which could have been the diabetes as it can cause large babies, or it could have been the large husband) and I am very petite. In particular, I was concerned about the baby's head size, which was measuring off the chart, and giving birth to THAT via induced labour - which I was told would almost certainly mean epidural and laying on my back. I was thinking forceps, should dystoica and probably an emcs.

As the 38 week 'eviction date' loomed (I would never have been allowed to go past that) my fears grew and grew, until I would think about the birth and terror would flood me from head to foot. Hearing my fears, the consultant offered me an ELCS although she said she would have preferred that I had a 'trial of labour' via indiction.

I still think it was the right decision for me and my baby, all things considered, and I had a very postive experience. The baby seemed very happy too.

And just to add - I do not have an overhang, I am a size 8 and still wear a bikini. My stomach muscles are a bit stretched but they are not fucked.
I was not in pain for a month.
I could look after my baby as soon as I got out of bed.
My baby was exclusively breastfed.
I did get contractions afterwards but I understand that is common with all births, especially if you are breastfeeding.

I've had a c-s and I've got an overhang.

But I've had the overhang since my VB

"What pissses me off is that people think having a CS is easy. Easy?! Let's shove a needle in your back, cut through your stomach while you're still awake then give you a helpless baby to look after immediately afterwards, while you're completely paralysed and in pain for days. Yes, that's really easy."

I'm so sorry you found it hard and that recovery wasn't straightforward. But it just goes to show how different some people find sections -- particularly if planned. I found it a little odd, undoubtedly, but fairly easy, calm and straightforward. I found the epidural uncomfortable, but fine really. The operation itself I found terribly exciting! I could walk slowly in 12 hours, breastfed with no problems, was walking fine at normal speed and moving about normally in days. A bit of numbness for a while around the scar but after about 4 weeks I'd forgotten all about it.

And maighdlin I have a tiny three inch scar (sadly I don't expect a repeat of this on the NHS!) that you can hardly see and absolutely no overhang. In fact my body is better than before I had my first child. Because I lost the 4 and more stone I'd put on in my first pregnancy.

This is not to boast, it's simply to say that experiences vary and people are so quick to judge from the other side.

About the tight lady bits, weeeel, I'm six months pregnant and still throw up once or twice a day. I have to stuff tissue paper in my knickers as my pelvic floor is just too weighed down by the baby to keep in any wee with a particularly violent chunder (sorry, TMI). I reckon pregnancy itself plays a part. After the birth of my first I was as per usual, that has to be said.

Anyway. I hope every women is listened to, and can push for the birth they feel they need.

"And maighdlin I have a tiny three inch scar (sadly I don't expect a repeat of this on the NHS!)"

Actually when I had my wax done for my ELCS I had to point out where the scar was from my emcs to the beautician it was so faded and small (done on the NHS) I expect my second one to be the same.

My CS was done on the NHS, and my scar healed beautifully and is hardly noticeable, so I've no worries about the next one (NHS, too) either.

NHS C section here - I can hardly see my little scar, 21 months later and no overhang.

My 3rd degree tear from my VB is another story altogether. Internal stitches anyone?

my first section scar was invisible after a year, it was amazing. 2nd one was appalling, the doctor did not excise the original scar, or cut through it, but instead cut across it from top on one side to bottom on the other so that i had an "x marks the spot". it healed very badly and left me with terrible lopsided overhang despite me being pretty slim. end of my bikini wearing days.

3rd section the kindly consultant who i insisted on (as didn't want to be butchered again) tidied it up as much as possible so it now doesn't look as bad, but i have still got 2 scars crossing each other, about 7 inches long, much further across on one side than the other, and still causing daily discomfort 16 months after last section.

Part of what I hate about the whole debate is that it isn't acknowledge that the recovery from a VB is often just as long and unpleasant as recovery from a CS. If you had a post partum hemorrhage and tore/were cut to your arse cheek and in other directions with plenty of stitches you have had the equivalent of surgery, just in the less well designed setting of a delivery room and with the expectation that you just bounce back. I would have loved to have recovered to functioning normally after 6 weeks.

Experiences vary so much, but I really think that it is worth seeing a crappy VB as requiring as much support, rest etc as a CS.

i guess c/s are different for everybody, like most things esp medical procedures. i was terrified going into my c/s having heard horror stories about healing and everything afterwards. being honest this thread is the first time i have heard nice (if that's the right word) c/s experiences. my scar is barely visible but found i had great difficulty with my stomach muscles for a good while afterwards.

re driving. my insurers said i would not be insured with them following a c/s until my doctor had written a note saying i was fit to drive. i could physically drive after about 2-3 weeks but if i had an accident i wouldn't have been covered. doctor give me a note at my six week check-up. this was in 2009.

I think that you would have to have a pretty bad tear to be unable to drive/lift a toddler although I'm sure there would be some breathe. I think the reason that people are at pains to point out that cs can have a long recovery time is because they are generally seen as an easier/less painful option than vb. 2 of my friends who have had cs both say that people think they have had the easy option and some won't even acknowledge they have given birth! Having seen people after c sections I'd take my 2 2nd degree tears all over again.

I had an emergency C-section with dd after she went into distress while I laboured, for a further 14hrs after becoming fully dilated. The consultant who delivered her said that if I ever fell pregnant again there was a 99.99% chance of it happening again. Especially as the deformity I have in my pelvis meant that at the point I was sectioned dd still hadn't even partially descended into the birth canal.

I am feeling rather hormonal and have the urge to slap the next person who tells me I am too posh to push and I should have given it a better try. A few more minutes and we both would have been dead. :(. I don't want to risk another baby's life like that again.

I'm with maighdlin. Horrible overhang, stomach muscles fucked, could barely walk for three weeks afterwards. I remember my well-meaning mother kicking me out the door "for a walk" because it would "do me good" and barely being able to get halfway round the block, having to stop and rest on a neighbour's wall. I can't wear anything clingy round the belly and I think I would actually prefer to have had a bad tear with a VB, at least only dh and I ever look at my fanny, plenty of people get to see my wrecked belly!

confuddled can you please tell me how in the world placenta praevia was safer before doctors got involved? I had placenta praevia. At 32 weeks I woke up thinking my waters had broken. They hadn't. It was blood. I had two more massive bleeds in the following 24 hours and each time it was as if someone was emptying a bottle of wine out of my vagina. I didn't get a blood transfusion and after the birth my haemoglobin was down to 5.5 and I looked like the bride of dracula. I have no doubt that if it wasn't for my EMCS ds3 and I would be dead. How would a local midwife have managed that?

She has been back but not backed that statement up with anything despite being asked Chipmonkey so I can only assume she confused placenta praevia for another condition. Seriously, it was an outrageous statement!

maighdlin - It sounds like your doctor wasn't very good.

I got up the evening of the CS (it was hard). On Day 2, I was taking care of baby, although taking care to move slowly. On Day 3, I didn't even take paracetamol as I felt fine.

Compare this to three weeks of non-stop agony that followed my first (vaginal) birth and you will understand why I feel that you really should not generalize your one experience to all CSs and say those of us who chose to have CSs should have our heads examined

By the way, everyone has contractions after birth, especially while breastfeeding, because that is how the uterus contracts back. Also, CS scars are under pubic hair line these days, so they don't cause overhangs. Mine was also in 2009 and that is how it was done at then.