Does anybody actually know anyone who had an ELCS just because they thought they were "too posh to push"?

[InAStateOfReflux]

Just watching the Wright stuff. One of the hot topics is that apparently ELCS rates being performed by the NHS are rising because people are deciding they are "too posh to push" and it's costing the NHS lots of money.

They are suggesting that these women should be offered psychiatric counselling to bring them round to the idea of having a vaginal birth.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I was given an ELCS because my dd was breech and was in fact strongly advised to (not given much choice in fact) and anyone else I know who's had one has been offered it because of significant trauma or complications in a previous birth.

I have never however met a woman who insisted on one on the NHS just cause she didn't fancy pushing it out of her fanny, and I doubt the NHS would go with this anyway tbh...

And if they're talking about women who have real fears and emotional distress regarding child-birth, then yes of course lets force the hysterical wench to push it out, does she not know how much money she's costing the NHS?

Oh how I love the way the media portray these issues...[sigh] Yes perhaps ELCS rates are rising and perhaps this should be addressed in some way, but to suggest it is for such fickle reasons is so juvenile. Perhaps it is the HCPs fault and not the whole female population who are apparently too cowardly to push their babies out?

I will agree, though, my (very lovely) consultant would not have considered a tummy tuck, because of the enlarged womb, which apparently is problematic.

This link is one of many which say that lipo or tummy tuck at the same time would be indeed ill-advised.

Going for a nose job, while you're in hospital anyway, I can imagine (well, not for me, but that it's offered), but that's a completely different kettle of fish to tummy tucks or liposuction designed to get rid of body fat.

Widow - a real close friend of many years.

My friend was genuinley shocked and she defintely didnt have the lipo done. She just thought it was weird - and she does though spend a lot of time with WAGS so she moves in all the right circles to have considred it.

Bit barmy to argue that surgeons wouldnt do these things because they are ill advised - Micheal Jackson anyone?? If you have the money somebody somewhere will do it.

I hate the way these threads go, and the talks in real life......decends into arguments about CS vs VB.

And yes chunkythighs I am infact allowed to be a bit shitty about it, I was answering the OP question as I stated, but you try having my birth and my concequences and then hearing your friend chirrup on the fone how she got a CS for no reason other than she wanted to have a better fanny than all the rest of us mothers.

And the "wizards sleeve" comment, lovely, just what I would expect to hear from a sexist man after being brought up on a diet of pornography. No wonder women are so fucked up and relationships broken when we vant even create new life without having to look perfect at the same time.

As for my birth, in summary - I have not had sex since, and will never ever have another child, ever. Thats trauma.

Nullis - can I ask why you DIDN'T want a CS?

I know that a close friend of mine (well, used to be) had a horrific birth and we have grown apart because I only have wonderful memories of my (ELCS) births.

How old is your child?

sorry to hear that nullis, I believe that every woman deserves to have the birth that they want. Be it CS or VB. However its no reason to dismiss your friends genuine fears- it could well be that your horrible experience scared her. I hope you make a full recovery.

As for wizards sleeve- no I am definitely female. Wizards sleeve is a jokey term and used certainly within that context so no apologies from me!

Widow, thanks so much. I just don't want to be dealing with an argument at 34 weeks!

If you had any useful links you could PM me with I would be eternally grateful ;)

I also have the words of my ob/gyn in Asia saying 'you'll have to have another section, if not particularly for Asherman's'. I obviously don't have my notes here in the UK so can't present them with that either.

Sounds like if you're not the prevaricating sort (my mind's 90 percent made up, it's only a question of quick recovery) and firm and can give reasons then they'll accept them. Was expecting the midwife to be more pushy but she nodded conspiratorially, if anything!

and Nullis. I'm very sorry about your trauma.

My child is 6. So I am unlikely to change my mind.

I did want a CS, I wanted one so badly. The medical staff pushed me and treated me like an idiot (first baby, young single mom) induced me when it wasnt neccessary and then proceded to leave me in agonising labour for over 2 days.
The hormones given to me during inducement increase pain of contractions. The staff actually argued over me about wether to go to CS or not. They really should have.

I should say I was prepared to have VB up untill then, I wasnt expecting one while pregnant. I was so exhausted after birth I couldnt even hold my baby. My baby was also ill as a result of the crappily managed labour.

So sad as it is, I can understand why you grew apart. Me and my friend did too. Not your fault, but when you have had that happen to you you dont want to hear about "my CS and whole 6 weeks recovery time".

Well, im 6 YEARS along and still not recovered.

Nullis, go back to your doctor and get a second/third/fourth opinion. You shouldn't just be left to be in pain and unable to have sex again. You may even benefit from talking to someone about it.

Thats horrific

Thankyou otchayaniye.

I know I sound bitter, I am. And chunkythighs I didnt think you were a guy, I was refering to want that comment sounds like to me. I hate those kinds of terms, and talking about womens bodies as if all we are are wanking holes for men. Like a comment further in the thread about a woman claiming to have an affair with a man who prefers her because she hasnt had children.

Disgusting, and disgusting that women talk of other women in that manner. :(

ok, here goes. I insisted on a ELCS because I have endo and suffered infertility and was told I would need IVF (I did conceive naturally after 2 and half years of trying and just after having a laparoscopy. I did not want anything to go wrong with the birth and some of my friends had lost babies and nearly died themselves etc. Every woman has a right to choose regardless of the circumstances. I am glad I did as it was very straightforward and relatively painfree and I was up and about on the same day and went home after two days.

Nullis- what is disguisting for one woman is not for another- I wouldn't use the term when speaking to my mother or GP but I feel is perfect if I'm taking the p1ss out of the judgyness that I have read here.

Each to their own really

just to add that I had to insist and they tried to talk me out of it but I insisted and fought and they agreed.

chunkythighs - you are missing my point.

Im not saying you are disgusting, I was saying those terms are, from what I saw you were having a bit of a joke and not using it as an attack on another woman.

The woman having an affair was attacking the poor wife, saying she had a "bucket" or "wizards sleeve" or whatever. Thats what I find disgusting.

Didn't Victoria Beckham have her 1st C Section because he was breech?

I have to admit, I wanted a c section all along, my mother has had four children, 1 by c section and told me all my life how much easier it was.

I ended up with one due to a failed induction two weeks overdue and would definitely ask for one again if I ever have a DC2... Don't want to go through that again!

Are people automatically offered repeat c sections or do people generally try to labour normally?

Ah nulluis I definately wasn't attacking. I was responding to the numerous , and references of trivial reasons, when their 'friends' explain why they are opting for a CS. If a woman has a real fear of becoming incontinent or tearing badly, why shouldn't she get a cs without fear of being judged for not doing it properly?

I am most likely guilty of saying something along the lines of 'cos I felt like one'. Mostly because I couldn't be bothered to go into the ins and outs of why I wanted a CS. Why I wanted one is noones business but my own, why should some nosy bint in a pub get to ask me why and expect the truth?

BTW the 'not doing it properly' reference was 100% tongue in cheek

I guess I was too posh to push. I never, ever considered a VB.

The thought of a prolonged labour, forceps and pelvic floor damage and subsequent incontinence just made me shudder. Plus I knew I wanted to BF, and thus mentally wanted to be in a good place to give that a go.

Bizarrely, DS1 was obl;ique and had to be ventoused out, even with a CS.

DS2 was very small. I had bleeding with an undiagnosed palcenta previa; the midwife somehow 'missed' it on a growth scan. The placenta had started to fail and the OB didn't think it would have lasted to 41 weeks. dread to think what would have happened if I'd been bullied into a VBAC.

confuddled i didn't put you down as learning everything from the NCT.

I'm not getting drawn into an argument about this. All I'm saying is vaginal birth is a tricky business with some very negative consequences for some. I'm not going to be budged on that because I sustained a rather unpleasant injury and I know what caused it; it was the use of forceps which in the circumstances were necessary to get my baby out safely from being in a poor position. It was not poor medical care, or too much intervention. It was a fairly sizeable baby in a poor position who would not easily manoeuvre out of the available space. I stand by my claim that Mother Nature has not got it quite right. Natural birth works a lot of the time but there are complications peculiar to our species because of our big heads.

Your claim that birth was safer before doctors got involved amazes me. My mother's first child got stuck and died. She was in a nursing home (40 years ago) so no doctors readily to hand. By your thinking, just as well, heh? They would've only made it worse.

"How have we survived as a species for 1000s of years if we're built so badly?"

It is not so much that we are built badly as that we have evolved bigger heads over millennia. You must have noticed that other mammals have their births on their own, with relative ease and then bounce back to life. Humans, on the other hand, have a quite frightening rate of damage and even mortality, especially if left to give birth alone.

"And why was birth SAFER before doctors became involved?"

Are you crazy or just ignorant?

Studies by Roger Schofield, B. M. Wilmott Dobbie, and Irvine Loudon estimate that maternal mortality rates between 1400 and 1800 were between 1 and 3 percent. Most often, women died in childbirth due to protracted labor caused by a narrow or deformed pelvis, fetal malpresentation, postpartum hemorrhage, or puerperal fevers. The health risk was renewed at each pregnancy. Since a woman averaged five pregnancies, 10 percent of these women died during or soon after childbirth. From here.

"Why are homebirths so encouraged as being safer?"

From what I hear about childbirth in the UK, I'd say that is because you people just don't get adequate one-on-one care in hospitals. At home, at least you get a midwife all for yourself. Better pray you don't have an emergency though, as you will not be an alarm button away from a real doctor or a neonatal unit.

Nona and Beta, re cosmetic surgery at the time as ELCS - I'm trying not to use the word bollocks but feel forced to. The private surgeons in the UK are bound by the same medical ethics as the NHS surgeons and it's utterly unethical to complicate a procedure with another unrelated one. I asked my (very experienced) private obstetrician about it and he laughed and said it's an urban myth. It's one thing to have your scar tidied whilst he's down there (I had that) but quite another to bring in another speciality to perform unrelated surgery on a patient who has just given birth! Come on! How ludicrous. And do you imagine they use the same obstetric anaethestist, too? Bollocks. There, I've said it.

People who believe the tummy tuck thing are surely talking about a scar tidy, not realising that a tummy tuck actually tightens muscles, does lipo, cuts from hip to hip, and its quite a complicated process to avoid something known as "dogs ears" which is a little bunch of skin at each end of the scar. The likelihood of these occuring if performed on the recently stretched and deflated skin of someone who gave birth that day is massive. To the extent that the procedure would have to be repeated anyway. It would be virtually ineffective and compromise blood supply and result in fluid build up.

I honestly dont believe any registered surgeon would perform a proper full abdominoplasty on a post partum woman and unless I personally meet one who assures me he/she has then I will never believe it.

I have actually asked my ob/gyn to do a tummy tuck during elCS. I quickly had to add "Only joking!" because he had already launched into a tirade of how it is not possible to do this on a post-partum body, how his responsibility is to focus on keeping me and baby alive, and how there was no chance of him letting a plastic surgeon into his operating room

In my defense, my tummy muscles were shot after DD's birth and I was told that I would need surgery. As one last shot at a non-surgical solution, I lost 10 kgs and started running. It turns out that I didn't really need surgery to get rid of the preggie tummy

BgaofHolly - it was liposuction not a 'tummy tuck' my friend was offered.

Liposuction may not count as surgery.