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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

I don't want 3 yr old DS to go on a day trip to the zoo with school. AIBU, DH says yes.

136 replies

pombal · 17/05/2011 19:28

DS1 3.5 yrs has the opportunity to go on a day trip to the zoo with school.
It will be his class (nursery) and the class above (reception), so about 22 children aged 3 - 5 years.
There will be 2 teachers and 2 assisstants going with them. The Zoo is an hours drive from school and they will leave at 9am and be back by 4pm.
We live abroad and it'll be hot.

I think he's just a bit too young for an all day outing in a big group like this, and we can take him to the Zoo another time.

DH is literally sulking that I won't let him go and has asked me to put it to the mumsnet jury.

AIBU to say no?

OP posts:

AnonymousBird · 18/05/2011 10:02

I let my DD go on an identical trip when she was 3 and she absolutely loved it, still talks about it now.

HOWEVER, there are no where near enough adults on the trip, so on that basis alone YADNBU.

I went on a trip with DS (nearly 7) last week and we had 7 adults to 23 children and it was hard enough keeping track and our children are considerably older than nursery!

LadyWord · 18/05/2011 10:11

YANBU, and I don't understand why nurseries/schools feel they have to arrange big, stressful trips like this for such little children. They get more out of going to places like this in a smaller family group, and that staff ratio sounds like a nightmare. Also, you know your own child and whether it's suitable for him - some 3yos might be OK, some not.

I used to avoid these trips too - I would keep DS off for the day and go on a day out ourselves, if I could.

LillianGish · 18/05/2011 10:14

At last, some sense being talked by others living abroad (except Bonsoir, but if I remember rightly your dd is not in local school). You can't send your kids to schools abroad and then moan when they don't conform to all the rules and regs imposed in Britain. Duchesse - you are describing all the schools my dcs have been in since they were 2. There are some things I don't like, but I don't spend my whole time thinking how much better they do things in Britain. If that's your attitude put them in a British school.

Bonsoir · 18/05/2011 10:20

My DD is in a French sous-contrat school, LilianGish.

With the benefit of hindsight I now think most of Petite Section was a waste of time. Which goes a long way to explaining why many, many "private" sous-contrat schools have abandoned PS all together.

duchesse · 18/05/2011 10:20

I think that UK children are incredibly over-coddled. Even in Canada they let them do way more than here. Our children were out playing in the school playground at -25C and lower, no excuses. Those below grade 2 (age 6-7) were allowed to stay indoors at playtime if the temperature dipped below -30C because of the chance of frostbite if they had any exposed skin. Everyone else was covered up and out the door, even when it reached -40C for a couple of days.

Francagoestohollywood · 18/05/2011 10:28

Was it a waste of time for your dd Bonsoir or is it a waste of time in general?

I love Italian nursery schools, such a great way to give everyone the same opportunities from a young age, instead of waiting til they are 6 and go to primary school.

duchesse · 18/05/2011 10:38

Actually I think that many children learn valuable social skills in PS, Bonsoir. Many of them also become properly toilet-trained after only a few days instead of needing to be asked if they need the loo. I wouldn't say it's a waste.

For the sake of balance, where I think the French education system is worse than the UK is in creativity and lateral thinking and independence of thought, none of which are really encouraged. I still think that the UK still knocks the socks off France in these fields and they are actually as valuable as the knowledge itself in applying it.

Francagoestohollywood · 18/05/2011 10:50

Duchesse, you can say the same about the Italian school system. Not creative at all etc. Thankfully we do have 3 yrs of free nursery school where children can be as creative as they like, learning some important social skills and establishing invaluable relationships, without the constant monitoring of parents

StarlightMcKenzie · 18/05/2011 10:56

DS is in nursery and has asd, but I'd still let him go tbh. But then I am a bit precious about giving him as much opportunity to share experiences with his peers as possible to extend his social communication opportunities.

The teachers will find a way to keep the children engaged/happy on the bus there and back.

I'd be planning a day long spa trip for myself........

Portofino · 18/05/2011 11:01

I love the Maternelle system here and often rave about it. Children learn to socialise, pay attention, manage the loo and school lunches and generally get used to being in school all day long before the actual "work" starts. Not to mention the wrap-round and free parts of it.

I was more worried about dd not starting Primaire til 6.5, but I think the difference is the whole class has levelled out and they are ready to learn. The amount they have covered in 2 terms astounds me!

Original poster

pombal · 18/05/2011 11:12

It's interesting to hear the views of other expat Mums. I have no experience of having children in the UK and haven't been back there for some time so I don't know if children here are better behaved, more mature etc.
I do know DS is better behaved at school than at home which I think is pretty typical.

Lillian - When you live abroad you do have to accept that they do things differently but I'm sure if I was in the UK there would be things I didn't like about nursery or school as well, that wouldn't mean I would just have to put up and shut up though surely?

Obviously the chances are it'll all go well and he'll return tired but excited,
I just wish there were a few more adults going.

Neither DH or I can go, I checked and I have to work that morning. If he goes to school he'll have to stay in with a different class, feeling really torn about it now, as I had just planned to keep him home and go on an outing or something.

OP posts:

Bonsoir · 18/05/2011 11:17

Franca - a waste of time in general. It is unusual, in families that can afford to do so, to use PS to the full anyway - most children do mornings only (which is all DD's school offered, but that is totally exceptional) and it is very dull. I don't regret it, as it secured a place for my DD in the school I wanted her to attend, but no learning went on. She didn't enjoy it at all, and I don't think it served any useful purpose other than ensuring she saw other children because of course all children are at PS. It's a bit of a vicious circle, really.

Bonsoir · 18/05/2011 11:19

duchesse - actually, PS is notorious for having a deleterious effect on "toilet training" as the children are required to go to the loo at set times. There has been some interesting press coverage by paediatricians about this!

valiumredhead · 18/05/2011 11:22

There would need to be many more helpers for me to even consider it and at 3 ds would still need an afternoon nap most days, so it isn't something I would be happy with.

Francagoestohollywood · 18/05/2011 11:30

Oh I see Bonsoir. No, it is really popular at least here in Milan. I have to say that we had a wonderful experience though, and it was all but dull (but then perhaps I am a boring parent? ).
The other day I took dd to say hello to her old teachers and it was like entering an idyllic documentary of childhood

COCKadoodledooo · 18/05/2011 12:10

Is the 4 school staff the totality of supervision? Because that sounds insufficient for me for that age group. If there were to be some parent helpers in addition then I'd probably let my child go. I trust the teachers at our school to ensure the children are hydrated and shaded.

Having said that, trips from our preschool were always accompanied by parents/carers.

I would be slightly concerned about transport arrangements too, would definitely want my child in age appropriate seating. Could you provide your own booster if that was the concern? Mind you, having seen Portuguese roads/drivers in action I can understand your concern! (travelled from Portimao to Lisbon in a day and saw no fewer 8 accidents, including 3 that looked to be fatalities ).

LillianGish · 18/05/2011 12:28

I don't say you should never complain Pombal, but I think you need to pick your battles. Telling a Portuguese school you don't want your ds to go on a trip because the weather is too hot is a bit like telling a teacher in an English school you are worried it might rain. And saying you think it will be too tiring for him when the rest of the class is going and he evidently wants to go, or telling her you don't want him on a bus with a Portuguese driver and other Portuguese on the roads probably wouldn't go too well either. I don't mean to be harsh at all, I totally understand what it is like to bring your kids up in a foreign country where standards and expectations are different. I think if you are going to be in Portugal for the forseeable future then you will have to be Portuguese about it. And I would take enormous comfort from the fact that: "I do know DS is better behaved at school than at home". Land the helicopter - I'm sure he'll have a great time.

PumpkinSnatch · 18/05/2011 13:06

CD supervision isn't going to make any difference if the bus crashes.
Starting to think I'm not as much of an overprotective mum as I thought as dd tends to sit in the luggage bit when we get the bus.

sheepgomeep · 18/05/2011 13:18

My dd has just been on a day trip to chester zoo with her nursery class. and reception. I had misgivings but she went anyway as there was a lot of parent helpers, 3 classroom assistant and two teachers. Each adult had a group of 4-5 children, all had wristbands with helpers mobile on it and the name and no of the school. They had to have sunhats and sunsceen on in case it was hot (it wasn't). It was well organized and that was the only reason why I let her go. As for the walking my dd can walk for miles and is used to it, we have a half mile walk to school everyday and often walk 3 miles into town. But I know not everychild can walk this far. I'm just lucky with dd

gkys · 18/05/2011 13:22

OP trips are very well supervised,they will take parent volenteers, chilfren under five will be in groups of eight with three adults, five and overs groups of six with one adult, let him go he will love it, its not just where they are going, but the going with friends that makes it so exciting for him, don't let him miss out

onebigchocolatemess · 18/05/2011 13:26

YANBU

Trust your gut, you know if he is ready for that kinda trip or not. My DS id 3.5yrs and i wouldn't let him

HTH

Angeliz · 18/05/2011 13:29

I wouldn't let mine go at that age.
Some trips yes but that's young for a long trip and i don't like the ratio either.
Hope you and hubby don't fall out over it but i'm with you, too young!

luckylavender · 18/05/2011 13:57

I think YABU. At about this age my DS went on a school trip to a zoo - some of the parents weren't so sure and followed the bus and the party around the zoo. DS (now nearly 15) still talks about those stupid parents and how mortified he would have been if I had been so over-protective.

Original poster

pombal · 18/05/2011 14:29

Lillian - LOL at land the helicopter :) Hope DH not reading this as that could catch on.

gkys - If there were a few more adults going I would feel better about it but i'm pretty sure there are no parent volunteers, there isn't usually.

I've just googled the Zoo website and it's a small zoo - no big animals, which makes me feel better.

I'm not really worried about the lack of booster seats in the coach and a professional driver in a big coach is prob safer than a sleep deprived me in an old banger, it's more that the distance makes it into a longer day.

I just still think an all day trip with a longish journey is unecessary at nursery but am faced with letting him go or him spending the day with the 5 - 6 year old class.

OP posts:

pink4ever · 18/05/2011 14:52

When I was a kid I went out on hot days without factor 50 suncream and went without litres of water. Guess what-Im still here!!. Parents nowadays molly-coddle kids far too much.
Op if you are really worried about dc going on this trip then why bother taking him to nursery at all?(to be looked after by professionals).Just keep him at home tied to your apron strings.

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