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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

I don't want 3 yr old DS to go on a day trip to the zoo with school. AIBU, DH says yes.

136 replies

pombal · 17/05/2011 19:28

DS1 3.5 yrs has the opportunity to go on a day trip to the zoo with school.
It will be his class (nursery) and the class above (reception), so about 22 children aged 3 - 5 years.
There will be 2 teachers and 2 assisstants going with them. The Zoo is an hours drive from school and they will leave at 9am and be back by 4pm.
We live abroad and it'll be hot.

I think he's just a bit too young for an all day outing in a big group like this, and we can take him to the Zoo another time.

DH is literally sulking that I won't let him go and has asked me to put it to the mumsnet jury.

AIBU to say no?

OP posts:

Pictish · 17/05/2011 21:16

My ds2, who is 3, is off on a day trip with his nursery class on Thursday. I think it'll be great! I have no issue with it at all.

pigletmania · 17/05/2011 21:20

I do feel that 3 is far to young for the distance of the outing and the length, not to mention the low staff ratios. Can't you volunteer to be a parent helper?

winnybella · 17/05/2011 21:22

I would let him go, but then here in France they take kids out for day trips quite often. DS went from his first year at maternelle, so he was 3.5. I think 1:5 or 1:6 ratio is ok- I imagine they are made to walk in pairs and hold hands?

I wouldn't let him go if it was a trip to the beach with only 4 people supervising, but zoo? Yes, I think I would.

Original poster

pombal · 17/05/2011 21:30

I'm in Portugal Lillian, and school is really big on trips, DS has been to a concert and a farm as well as walks near school but as Piglet says it's a combo of the length of trip, distance and staff ratio that puts me off this time.

Thanks all for replies, server is being very slow so am off now :)

OP posts:

hulababy · 17/05/2011 21:31

I think they need more staff/helpers. 6 children per adult is too much at that age at such a venue imo.

At reception age I wouldn't think twice and say ok. But preschool does seem young, and I'd want a higher adult:child ratio I think.

Will they accept additional helpers?

HerHissyness · 17/05/2011 21:34

I wondered if you were in portugal Pombal, both by the name and the description of driving!

This is your DS, your life and your decision, if you were comfortable, you wouldn't think twice, listen to your gut.

this is why I'm not letting my DS go and he is 5.5, and I'm in leafy UK.

pigletmania · 17/05/2011 21:34

I agree hulababy the staff ratio if they are taking pre school needs to be higher based on the children needing more supervision than school aged children

AuntiePickleBottom · 17/05/2011 21:41

yanbu, there is not enough adults to supervise.

i don't think parents can help as in my son school every parent helper must have a CRB check. (may be diffrent in other schools though)

kslatts · 17/05/2011 21:54

I would let him go, my dd's would of been disappointed to miss a trip at that age. What happens if he doesn't go, will he still go to nursey or stay at home with you the day of the trip?

PumpkinSnatch · 17/05/2011 21:59

I'm quite shocked at the number of people saying yanbu. I am a super over anxious mum and I wouldn't have a problem with this. A 3 yo armed with fluids will not dehydrate. I wouldn't imagine they'll be tearing round the zoo as most of them would get tired - there will be lots of sitting down. Slap some p50 on him and he'll be fine. Could you go along if you are worried about supervision? Although I assume the staff/child ratio would meet the legal requirement for wherever you are based?

smallpotato · 17/05/2011 22:06

YANBU, DD is 3 and she's not going on her preschool trip to the zoo 40 mins away. Parents are welcome if they want to come but I don't fancy dragging 10mo DD2 round all day with a bunch of preschoolers, and I think she's too young to go without me. If it was just a trip to a local park or something it would be ok but it's a massive zoo. Go with your instincts, he's too young to care anyway.

smallpotato · 17/05/2011 22:06

cluttered · 17/05/2011 22:24

YADNBU, I think the number of adults is too low. My DS went on a reception class trip to the zoo, I wasn't selected to be a parent-helper but went anyhow (had to make my own way as no room on the coach) because he was worried he might get lost. I pooh-poohed the idea but actually it wouldn't have been at all surprising if someone had got lost.

The ratios were 1 adult to 6 children but all the groups split up so the children couldn't go to the toilet unless 2 groups met up so one adult could stay with the non-toilet goers. I went round with DS's group of 6 and a TA and I don't know what she would have done without me, 2 of the children were really badly behaved and constantly running off at the drop of a hat so she had to chase them leaving me with the 4 others!

At the end everyone met by the entrance and one teacher took some children for a toilet visit but no-one knew which children had gone and then she didn't come back to the group but took the children out of the zoo to wait for the coach and no-one had her mobile number. Total chaos. I'm sure your trip will be better organised OP but the children are younger and it's such a long day.

IgnoringTheChildren · 17/05/2011 22:53

The British guidelines (Dept for Education) state a ratio of 1:4 for 2-3 year olds and 1:6 for 4-6 year olds for trips, however organisers obviously have to take into account risk factors and practicalities (toilet breaks etc) and also the possibility of an emergency. I was once on a trip where a child fell, cutting his head badly and had to go to A&E with one of the members of staff - this would have caused us real issues if we'd only had the bare minimum number of adults on the trip!

If there are only four 3 year olds then this trip just meets the guidelines (of course the country you are in will have its own regulations), however it sounds under-staffed to me (particularly when you take into account the length of journey, weather conditions and location).

Go with your instincts - if your don't feel comfortable with it then your DS shouldn't go (YANBU!)

CoffeeDodger · 17/05/2011 23:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MumblingRagDoll · 17/05/2011 23:27

YANBU! He's too small and that sounds like very few teachers. Too far, too hot. No.

Scuttlebutter · 18/05/2011 00:08

I'd say no, but that's because I loathe zoos, and would be concerned about how they treat the animals in their care, and what visiting such a place teaches children about how wild creatures should be treated.

PumpkinSnatch · 18/05/2011 00:46

CoffeeDodger don't you ever get the bus into town or anything?

complexnumber · 18/05/2011 04:48

Have you ever been to the zoo yourself? At this age DD1 went to Istanbul zoo with her pre-school and the lion was only separated from the public by a wire fence that you could put your hand through.

Sometimes a general lack of attention to safety in a country, as you say with the driving, is reflected in the zoo's safety standards too.

sleepywombat · 18/05/2011 05:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hairfullofsnakes · 18/05/2011 05:37

Definitely not! Not enough staff, too long, too far, no bposter seats no no no!

CheerfulYank · 18/05/2011 05:54

Hmm...well in America an hour's drive is nothing, so I don't think that's a big deal, also a 1:5 ratio doesn't sound too bad. But it is an awfully long day for a little guy, and if you're uncomfortable I say YANBU.

Shtiv · 18/05/2011 06:41

Maybe your bloke wants some time with you alone, thought about that?

Very unreasonable.

lesley33 · 18/05/2011 08:17

I don't know what it is like in Portugal, but I lived abroad for a while and was shocked by the different standards.

Most children at 4 would walk too and from nursery themselves and at 5 all would. The staff ratios were low as well. However the children seemed far more mature and able to do things themselves than in the UK.

I ask because I had to relax and fall in more with the local way of doing things. If I hadn't my children would have been the strange foreigners who weren't allowed to do things that all of the other children did.

It did make me understand and empathise more with foreigners in this country who are reluctant to let their children do things that we take for granted in this country e.g. teenage girls and boys mixing without close adult supervision. Although I would in the past have felt fairly judgemental about this, I realised that the parents abroad would have seen me in the same light.

BitOfFun · 18/05/2011 08:27

I wouldn't hold him back from his peer group, no. If it's good enough forthe other kids, it's good enough for your PFB.

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