'people whi judge should be ashamed of themselves'. wdyt?

[Cat98]

Sorry for picking on a particular quote, but I saw this on another thread, and I wondered what other people thought. Personally - I agree that generally, openly judging other people isn't a nice thing to do. Also it could be hypocritical - nobody is perfect, and there could be an area of your life that would be judged, too. However, I do think that to some extent it is human nature to judge. Do some people honestly never make a private judgement about the actions of someone else? Be it a friend or a total stranger? I have become less judgey since becoming a parent myself, and since reading mumsnet! But I can honestly say I do still judge sometimes and I can't imagine anyone who doesn't, ever. So do you exist, total non-judgers? Because you are better people than I am!

Second the call for a "what Hecate says" emoticon

Someone put it very well over on pg and smoking thread...

Can't remember the actual words but it was something along the lines that the 7 deadly sins mean nothing now...6 have been removed and the only one that now exists is "being judgey"....
People can basically do as they please with no accountability, responsibility or regard for anyone else...it doesn't matter just as well as they please themselves..and no-one has a right to criticise.

Whoever started that term "being judgey", having "judgey pants on"?
Irritatingly childish terms....that will no doubt soon appear in the English Dictionary to replace being judgemental.

I think it's naive to think that others won't judge you on what you say and what you do. If I yell foul language across a street and behave generally inconsiderately it would be very unreasonable not to expect others tot judge me.

NOT TO not tot!

Basically agreeing with marmalade

I don't care who judges whom as long as by and large they keep it to themselves.

Someone walking down the road with tattoos not an issue for me. Someone walking down the road dropping litter will make me very cross and I will judge them to an ill-educated selfish oik!

I agree with bonsoir to a large extent. Yes we can all be kind and thoughtful to others to the best of our means but some of the biggest moral actions we can take in our cosumerist society these days involve the way we spend our money. If, to take a very minor example, you are opposed to industrialised farming, one of the ways you can show this is to buy free-range, organic produce, preferably from a local farmer. If your budget is limited that is a luxury you can't afford. Morality costs.

"I think the quality of judgement or even being judgemental is an evolutionary essential. We're a community animal and we need to live among 'people like us', all pulling in the same direction, to be successful as a species"

Eek cogito! I find that a bit worrying. 'People like us' might well exclude those of different skin colour or religion.

I think there are certain norms of behaviour we can expect. But I think there aren't many TBH. Just the basics. Don't kill, don't rape, don't steal. When it gets more specific than that you run into difficulties.

I think a lot of people judge themselves too harshly we are what we are

Making private judgements I think is perfectly natural.

so if for instance I see someone allowing their 12yr old daughters boyfriend stay the weekend with them, I might have my own private opinion about that as it goes completely against what I believe, however if I then decide to "voice my opinion" about it then i am overstepping personal boundaries, unless I have been "asked" for my opinion.

Everybody has a right to raise their children their own way, so long as there is no abuse involved, otherwise, people really need to learn to mind their own business, it's quite shocking how openly opinionated people are about other people's lives on here. You just never know what backgrounds and experiences have formed the reasons for why other people choose to do things a certain way.

I just wish more people would know the difference.

Is there ever a thread when it's not appropriate to post 'What Hecate said'?

We can make our own [WHS] = What Hecate said.

Hopefully I won't be judged for quoting an answer from 'Yahoo Answers' as a response (yeah right), but it sums up how I feel about the whole judging thing, and the author has worded it much better than I could manage at this time of morning (3am here)

"Judgement is born of ignorance. What I mean by that is that it represents our assessment of circumstances and events based on incomplete information.

It's not so much that it is plain human nature to judge, as much as it is that we cannot possibly know everything about all circumstances and events; therefore, we must make judgements based on our incomplete information.

When a judge presides over a case in his courtroom, he is functioning in ignorance of the circumstances and events under scrutiny. He must depend on the information provided to him by the people who actually know what happened or think they know what happened, in order to make any kind of decision on the case.

And, when we sit in judgement of others, it is because we are not inside their heads. We do not know the circumstances and events that influenced that person to think, say, or do what they thought, said, or did. For if we did, we would have likely done exactly what they did.

The best that any of us can hope to do is analyze the circumstances and events of others in the context of our own - but, they aren't the same. We each have our own individual circumstances and events that guide our choices in life. And, just because the circumstances and events of my life did not lead me to do what you have done does not mean I would not have done it, if I had experienced what you have experienced.

So, our judgements, born of ignorance, will often steer us in the wrong direction. That is why they should be avoided as much as possible.

And, there is really nothing we can do about it. For reality is made up of an infinite number of different possible perspectives and we have but one - our own."

lifewhispers1 (Yahoo Answers 2009)

As a very superficial example of this (all I can manage at this stage) is the muffin top, mentioned in a previous post. If I were to see someone with a muffin top, although I would not consciously choose that look for myself, who is to say whether or not the person with the muffin top has recently lost a lot of weight, is over the moon that they can fit into a pair of jeans, and think they look great. Who knows, and good for them regardless.
I'd say I judge judgmental people, but then again, I don't know the circumstances that made them so judgmental in the first place, so, as long as no one is getting hurt, I do try not to judge.

I judge. I make judgments of almost everyone i see

Whether i voice these judgments is another matter.

I agree completely with Hecate's post.

everyone judges,its how one applies own morals,ethics,and behavioural,social norms to someone else situation. One Needs a recognition and insight that any judgement may not be shared or welcome.

and people who say they dont judge are lying - everyone judges. that faux liberal who am i to judge... stance is nonsense. it is a bit weasly and socialsciencetastic to say oh no never judge anyone.

judgement in itself isnt necesarily negative either.it is possible to positively judge good parenting too

Mishtabel - "And, when we sit in judgement of others, it is because we are not inside their heads. We do not know the circumstances and events that influenced that person to think, say, or do what they thought, said, or did. For if we did, we would have likely done exactly what they did."

I'm sorry but bollocks would we have 'likely done exactly' what, say, Fred West or Myra Hindley or Ian Brady did. Because if you extrapolate that wishy-washy crap that's where you end up. That we should let everyone continue to do exactly as they please because we are not inside their heads? Thank God for that, in a lot of cases. I don't want to be in the heads of the five teenagers who were convicted today of stabbing another teenager to death in Victoria station after planning to do so on Facebook because of tensions between their rival schools. Do I judge them? Hell yes. And I really don't give a fuck what was going on in their heads.

Mishtabel,your answer is so woolly you could put it in a field and call it dolly

really,in real life we all make snap,spontaneous judgements.in the absence of full corroborating evidence,mitigating factors or a bag of psycho babble explanations

only today
the screechie faggy mammie bawling at weans in supermarket
the mammie drinking lager whilst pushing pram
aye i definitely judge that

It's perfectl natural and I think acceptable to judge. I've stopped seeing 2 friends as I just couldn't get over somehting they'd done. I had my judgeypants pulled high both times. Some might say that if they are friends you don't judge. I disagree. Both instances were things that actually made me realise I didn't want anything to do with them, and both involved their treatment of their children. I don't judge strangers as harshly fwiw.

difference of opinion most of us can live with
enduring negative judgement usually not tolerated in friendships

Applauds nokissymum... that's what I meant on the other thread.

It's true, we do all make judgements, all the time, over important things and trivia but we don't all voice them all the time. Some people feel the need to pass vocal judgement on all they survey and seem to need 'back-slapping' and validation of their opinions all the time.

Using the 'muffin top' example, I might notice somebody with one, I might even wonder if they'd noticed it themselves but I wouldn't ponder what their diet is like or try to extrapolate other ridiculous generalisations from it or them as a person, and nothing would induce me to comment on it. Perhaps that's the real issue? People feel they have the right to comment on anything and everything and a forum is the perfect platform from which to spout. The danger with that is obvious really; throwing judgemental opinions around is going to scoop up other people on the forum in similar circumstances and possibly cause hurt.

Let me just repeat as long as no one is getting hurt , meaning that I would not include murder and endangering children as something I wouldn't judge.

BooBooGlass... I too have done that. Ended a friendship because the other person did something, albeit not to me, that I really couldn't accept. I don't know if that's classed as a judgement or not, but it was definitely a divergence of opinion of moral character. To have tried to maintain the friendship would have rendered it false.

but its safer to vent on anonymous forum than rl
here it is words on a screen,and whilst may be offensive lacks the impact of rl.and to an extent the point of discursive forum is to discuss.one has to (or should) expect some robust opinions on line if engaging adults.and online people will reply in a more straight way than they would in rl. which is the pleasure and pain of online chat

Mishtabel,by apportioning blame in certain circumstances and deciding when to judge. you are already being judgemental

your claims of i judge not, is a ridiculous stance

It's interesting you say that scottishmummy. People aren't often as anonymous as they'd like to think. One of the friends I fell out with was as a direct result of identifying them on here and realising the situation I was supporting them with was all total lies. She was claiming she had an unexpected pregnancy in a very new relationship. In fact, she was on the conception boards . It wasn't just me who saw it either, and she's lost a lot of friends ove rit. Lesson to be learned-don't make yourself so identifiable, and don't then get pissed off if people call you up on it.

And may I just repeat I TRY not to judge