to not care about immigration?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

So many people seem to have a huge problem with it and I really don't understand why.

The crazy thing is, I live in a hugely multicultural area and most of the people I know who have a problem with this, live in predominantly white suburbs.

We have a problem here with alcoholic homeless people fighting and screaming in the streets - none of them are immigrants.

Or you could fuck off to another country mx5hairdresser. Already missing you

Anyway...

I think what this thread has demonstrated is that we are now a global economy and society. We cannot put the genie back in the bottle no matter what your personal stance on the matter is.

However, the current climate of blaming immigration for all our problems is dangerous. For example we had the EDL demonstrating in our home town last month - if you'd told me ten years ago that, that could happen I would've laughed in your face. It's downright scary.

I am not bizarre, I just hate smugness. I don't look down on you because of where you live, I look down on you because you expect praise for living there. I also think people who resort to name calling are pathetic and ignorant. So, yes, I do think I am perfectly justified in saying I will take the moral high ground because I have not responded by calling you a twat.

You still here?

Usualsuspect;

Satire is clearly wasted on you -

However, I wish you luck and many other nice things

"Rob F
what about the terrible effect we have had on the locals in all the resorts abroad where we have hiked the property prices up to levels that have priced the locals out of their own market?"
That is up to the countries in question to sort out.

Clearly my sarcasm was wasted on you, deuxpoints

Satire? Where?

(that's also sarcasm, btw)

Come and sit down stuckinthemiddlewithyou - I'm going to pour you a nice drink and give you the benefit of my wisdom

Ok - if you want a discussion on something like immigration ( and clearly you do ) you need to be able to demonstrate a clear and coherent understanding of the subject - you can't just say "well my area is full of immigrants and it's fine so what's your bloody problem" - and then refer to anyone who's opinion you don't agree with as a "pillock" - because that makes you look a bit silly and someone who is out of her depth subject wise.
My local hospital works brilliantly - that doesn't mean there aren't problems within the NHS - are you following?

oooooh patronising much

jasminetom Sun 15-May-11 13:53:09

I think you are just asking for a pat on the back for being so right on and for living in an area that has lots of immigrants and alcoholics. Happy to give you a pat on the back as long as I never have to visit you.

Duexpoints This is the post that demonstrated her pillockness to me. As you can see, she didn't actually give any opinion on the actual subject of the thread, more of a thinly veiled attack on my percieved motives for posting in the first place.

So, your claim that I used the word "pillock" (it's a good word - should be used more often) because somebody disagreed with me, is infact, complete drivel.

also I think our propety prices are pretty hiked up here as well and the locals cannot afford to live in the area they were born and there is a lack of social housing/council housing.

House prices have risen in the UK for many other reasons....what else do you want to lay on the door of immigration makes an easy scapegoat doesn't it.

But immigration is one of the main reasons, is it not?

Price is set by supply and demand. Immigrations = more demand. Labour failed to build much in the way of public housing, after years of criticising the Tories for selling much of it off.

If the immigrants often manage to get the social housing/council housing as their need is greater, then the local people have to rent or buy. I know some immigrants obviously buy properties as well.

Agree with OP.

There are several different strands of immigration, which the public generally tend to lump together as if it was all the same thing:

Skilled migration - i.e. non EU nationals with specialised skills coming here to work and pay taxes - is indisputably a benefit to the economy, yet has been slashed in the last year to satisfy the furious public - this is damaging businesses and the economy. Anyone who says "We should have a system like Australia or Canada" is ignorant of the system we do have, which is more restrictive than either of these countries.

Unskilled migration - where lazy good for nothing foreigners come in and work for nothing or steal benefits - is fictional. There is no such thing. The UK does not "let them all in".

Illegal migration - is a different story and it is arguable that the UK needs to control this better - and the government is making efforts; e.g. tightening student visa programme.

Asylum - asylum seekers aren't allowed to work or claim benefits and I would be hugely ashamed of our "great" country if we closed the door to people who really need help. I hope others, even RobF would feel the same. Our grandparents didn't fight for this country in order for us to turn into miserable bastards who ignore genocide and human rights abuses.

EU migration - like it or not, we are part of the EU, and we are legally obliged to allow all 2004 EU entrants (e.g. Poland) to come into the UK and work here. Same will go for Romanians and Bulgarians by the end of 2013. It's either that or leave the EU. There is also an argument that the UK was too quick to allow 2004 entrants to work (it wasn't a legal obligation - there was a grace period during which restrictions could have applied, up until 1 May 2011).

Wage undercutting - I agree with the OP that the biggest threat is exporting jobs. And the more we cut legal, skilled migration, the more this is going to happen. If employers can't employ good, skilled workers at reasonable rates here, they're obviously going to look at offshoring services, from call centres to typing to construction. It makes sense, not just because it's cheaper, or just because technology makes it quite straightforward in a lot of cases, but because good skilled labour in the UK is simply not that easy to come by. Offshoring services and production has a very detrimental effect on the UK economy - it would clearly be MUCH better to allow employers to hire skilled labour, foreign or not, in order to be able to keep businesses alive in this country. But not a lot of people seem to be able to see that.

i'm sick of reading on MN on similar threads by people stating they are not english how crap the english culture is. i love the english culture. in their rants they always make reference to binge drinking etc implying that all english people are like that, the press give this impression. this is ridiculous and in its own way racist. not all english people are having sex left right and centre and binge drink, wear provocative clothing if they are female, this is a stereo type which i constantly read on here by posters that claim not to be english. i have lived in a multicultural area for the lasts 24 years and have lived for the other part of my life in a non multicultural area. i think alot depends on which cultures you are living among as to how comfortable one feels. ie i lived in notting hil which in the 80's/90's was predominantly west indian etc, i loved the atmosphere living there, people integrated and lived happily together, it was fantastic. i loved living in a non multicultural area, people shared similar upbringings/experiences and you didn't feel like you were living among strangers. i now live in east london and i hate it. if the op wants a list of reasons as to why having so many immigrants living here doesn't work, i can give you a list, a long one.

What do you consider to be "the English culture", paisleyII?

People seem more than happy to take the credit for what their ancestors did, fighting in world wars etc, but none of the burden for what those same ancestors did in the name of Empire. Why is that?

Excellent post starkadder.

PaisleyII - who has criticised English culture on this thread while claiming to be foreign? Or did you just assume that they were foreign?

the stats on immigration and emigration

Because it's convenient, thenumbertaker. Too many facts about the empire get in the way of the stories that we like to tell ourselves about Britain.

it's had to put into words a feeling/atmosphere but for me it feels very different as a white english person living in a heavily multicultural area now compared to how it used to feel when it was either a/a different culture to the dominant one i live with now or b/the english culture i experienced recently when i visited devon a few months ago. where i live now people won't make eye contact with me easily, certainly not up for a friendly chat or any kind of shared community spirit, it feels lonely and that i am the outsider. in devon people made eye contact, smiled and said ie good morning. they seemed to chat about things, simple things but it felt nice, i liked it and missed that. tbh i don't care what culture i live among, it doesn't have to be english, but it would be nice to live among a culture that you didn't feel didn't like you.

magic - towards the beginning of the thread someone had posted something about the english culture being crap ie drinking etc and thus bring in the immigrants as the british culture stinks (not these words but meant the same thing), it pissed me off

Mx5hairdresser posted along those lines, but I don't believe she said she wasn't British.

I am as English as anyone, and I like living in this country. However, there are aspects of our culture that I can't stand. That doesn't make me any less English.