to not care about immigration?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

So many people seem to have a huge problem with it and I really don't understand why.

The crazy thing is, I live in a hugely multicultural area and most of the people I know who have a problem with this, live in predominantly white suburbs.

We have a problem here with alcoholic homeless people fighting and screaming in the streets - none of them are immigrants.

What aspects of our culture can't you stand?

no, i am one of the first to say that i am ashamed the way alot, certainly not all, of young people in this country behave ie teenage pregnancys, binge drinking, dress ie tits out/too short skirts however i have read time and time again and heard it said within my ear shot by women claiming to be asian (on MN) that the general vibe is that english women behave a certain way/have bad morals so it is red flag to a bull now when i hear or read this whoever types it

RobF - where to start? I'm sure you do a pretty good job of illustrating some of them!

I don't particularly want to get into a long analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of our culture on this thread, as it has nothing to do with the topic of immigration. Suffice to say that, having lived overseas for many years as an immigrant , I became much more aware of the things that I liked and disliked about the culture I was brought up in here.

My point wasn't to focus on the negatve aspects of British culture, but rather to say that we shouldn't assume that anyone who criticises "our culture" (however that may be defined) is necessarily a foreigner.

Paisley - fair enough. I obviously haven't been on any of the same threads as I'm not aware of this at all. I know plenty of Asian women in RL too, and I have never really heard them slagging off British women. But I'm sure there are some who do...

magic - i don't usually post, i like to read on MN but have definately noticed that on similar subject threads there is definately a pattern that english people get a bashing and stereotyped by media pushed behaviour, not always but often posted by women openly claiming to not be english. i am the first to voice my sadness at how alot of english teenagers/women behave and i am no saint but i do think things have gone too far. i was in denmark last year and noticed that their teenages over there seemed to behave so differently than what you observe ie in leicester square on a friday night over here. over there they seemed on the whole alot more reserved and respectful and not dressed with their arses hanging out, i was quite shocked actually, and when i spoke to some young people there they would often bring up about how 'the english behave', seems young english do have a bad name. having said that, i love england and being around people, mixed people but people who have a mutal respect and look out for each other which sadly you don't see much of where i live

I feel sorry for people with learning difficulies who cannot get work. Many employers would prefer to employ an immigant with no english but normal IQ than someone with learning difficulties. (How intelligent do you really need to do washing up or pick potatoes?)

I would like to see illegal immigration stamped down on harder. I also think that asylum seekers should be allowed to stay for two years and then have their case reviews. Prerhaps we can have finanical incentives for people who agree to emigrate (whatever colour their skin is!)

Immigrants who have high level skills should be welcomed. There is a massive problem with some immigrants who work for less than the minimum wage. My brother has told me about building sites that will only employ poles. Surely british people should not have to put up with racial discrimination in their own country.

So are you saying it's ok for the English to criticise aspects of English culture, but not for anyone else to voice their views?

Why shouldn't Asian women have an opinion of the culture that they're living in? In my experience, exposure to more than one culture tends to heighten your awareness of the strengths and weaknesses of both - so those same Asian women might be equally critical of aspects of their own culture.

I know when I lived abroad, there were things about my host country that I really didn't like, because I was comparing them unfavourably with things back here. That said, I loved that country overall, and spent many happy years there. It's just that no one country has found all of the answers...

reallytired - have you been watching the tv fly on the wall docu' the hotel? there is a welsh chap, hotel manager and he openly said in the last episode that he only employs eastern europeans as english people won't get out of bed, i was quite shocked and upset by this comment (all his staff in the hotel are eastern european). he said this because one of the kitchen workers kept being late and coming in to work with a hangover. it makes great viewing actually,

magic no, anyone can slag off the english culture only when it comes from people that rarely where i live mix with my culture i take it as a put down. i criticise myself and my culture constantly and so do people around me in all shapes and forms, normal but when i regularly hear the same criticism around me when it comes from women who refuse to mix at all with english people then i take this very personal indeed,

But if they refuse to mix at all, how do you know that they are being so critical? Presumably you don't get to discuss these things? Or do they walk around with big banners announcing what they don't like?!

Not having a go, btw, just don't understand how you can know what people think if you never really mix with them.

not immigration to be honest, yanbu there

I'd be more concerned that a finite number of taxpayers here cannot fund a health service and welfare system for the world

also to do with the fact that I like the British civil code, largely, and I don't really want it changed

where these things are connected with migration I would be concerned, otherwise not

have been an immigrant (expat) and we paid our way and fitted in, and that's the way it should be really, I think

I'm sure lots of people disagree

i knew you would come back and ask me this. i could spend hours listing my many experiences of clear rejection in their community but am too tired. what i will say is that funnily enough one of my closest friends is muslim but she is an outsider as she is married to a white man and finds herself on the 'outside' of the local clique, they won't allow her to be a part of their inner circle and constantly have a go at her having 'rejected' them by her marrying out and not practicing her religion. that is a different story but she, my friend, has certainly given me an insight into how the average women in this clique view the average white english female at the school gates. this is pretty obvious anyway, i have given up count the amount of times i have tried to get into a friendly conversation with one of them as i like to mix with all types of people, they make it very clear they do not want to mix, they won't let their children mix with our either, that is another sad story which i won't go into now but my friend has told me countless times how they think we dress provocatively and behave in a shameful way (these were her words). i do not drink, i don't wear sexy clothes etc but whatever i do or don't do i just know they look down on me. i never see any of these women talk to anyone other than women who share their culture. there have been many times on here when women who say they are asian regularly bring up the binge drinking element, sexual behaviour to justify their own less complimentary view of the english culture. if there is a culture when people in abudance clearly go out of their way not to mix with you it pretty much gives you a clue that these people in particular don't appear to like you much

funny that paisleyII ...because my ds has many friends from different cultures, he doesn't seem to have any trouble mixing with them

My dd too, usualsuspect. One of her closest friends is from quite a strict Muslim family, and they couldn't have been warmer or more welcoming. It's a pity that your experience has been so different.

I wonder if your friend who has been ostracised has a bit of a vested interest in painting the rest of her community in such a negative light?

usual - aren't you the lucky one. my friend whose dd is in another class to my dd is the only english girl in the class, she never gets invited to any parties or after school teas and the kids won't play with her in the playground either, she goes home in tears at least once a week. my dd on the other hand is close with a girl who is from pakistan but her mother NEVER invites my dd over. i regularly ask her if her dd would like to come round and play with my dd but sadly she makes excuses up so sadly my dd only gets to play with her 'best friend' in the playground at school. i know of many people at school who have similar stories. it is just how it is apparently where i live. what can i say. people don't have to mix with each other but it isn't very nice when you are part of a group that it would appear for whatever reason aren't wanted to be a part of

magic - i don't think so. my friend is a warm kind type of person, i can't imagine why she would say these women have said these things when they haven't. i get the impression that she just tells it like it is, from the horses mouth so to speak. she isn't malicious. she is quite insecure and doesn't feel she fits in anywhere, be it with muslim women or english ones, then again, i am a bit of a misfit too which is probably why we are so close. she is from india as opposed to pakistan whilst alot of the women at the school gate are from pakistan, i doubt that has anything to do with it but then again, perhaps it does, i have no idea

Thats such a shame because my ds went to a very multicultural school and as a result has no problem mixing with other cultures or them with him

I'm amazed that the BNP don't have more seats with some of the racist bullshit most of you are spouting.

In my experience, Indian people frequently like to have a moan about their Pakistani neighbours, so it might well have something to do with it!

It's a pity about your friend's dd being excluded though. The school really ought to be doing more to promote integration in situations where one child is in any sort of minority. It doesn't have to be like that, and some schools seem to cope with this sort of situation better than others.

As for your dd's best friend - I sympathise re being unable to play together outside school. My dd is unable to play with her closest friend outside school, and she does find this hard. However, this isn't for cultural reasons, it's just that the other family doesn't do play dates or parties as they have lots of kids and lots of extra-curricular activities. Maybe there is a similar reason why your child's friend never accepts your invitations?

Not sure if it helps, but my dd does play regularly with a Pakistani friend outside school. However, the parents weren't prepared to let her come alone to our house until they had got to know us a bit. The littlle girl's mum came with her the first time, and we had a cup of tea and a chat while the girls played. The next time, they invited dd, me and dh around to their house for dinner. We had a lovely evening and they were reassured that we were trustworthy enough to look after their lovely daughter from time to time. Perhaps next time you could try inviting the mum (and any siblings) round with her daughter? I know this might seem OTT to some, but we all have different comfort levels and I think it's quite reasonable to want to get to know someone a bit before handing over your child!

When my dear dad came here in the late 40's from Ireland (North, so he had every right) he came across all sorts of discrimination. But... there were no jobs in the North for a Catholic man, so he came here, where he had lots of jobs, ending up driving buses. He never claimed a penny off the state, except child benefit for us children. He bought his own house and worked hard.

But... the situation was different then, Britain actually needed manpower because of the war, that's why there were invitations to the people of India, Pakistan and the West Indies to come here too.

Today, there are people flooding in through Kent illegally, they are caught, police let them go in the vain hope they will attend a court appearance, they disappear yet again.

Five Kosovan men in a car ran into mine a couple of years ago, he admitted they didn't have insurance apart from anything else (driving licence etc.). I was given a producer! I protested it was them that hit me! Still, after 6 months, I had a letter off the police to say the address they gave didn't exist! So they couldn't be brought to book for what they did to my car (£300 worth of damage). This is how immigration has affected me, OP.
It doesn't leave a pleasant taste in my mouth.

i am imigrant- i come here by incident really- but then i met english guy and we are together since more than 3 years now- we both are working hard to get the house, but we are doing very well.

I am ashamed though- not because of me but because of people from my country coming here- taking benefits, and saying that they don't like this and this, english people, food- I always say to them " so you should ...... to your county ASAP".

It is problem for me- and also not easy decision what I had to make.

Mell- that is a great example of how you have been affected by crime. Not immigration. I am sure there are plenty of people who could give you an example of similar things done to them by British citizens.

when i first lived in east london about 14 odd years ago it was when eastern europeans first came over. this is when cash point crime in the form of being tapped on the shoulder and someone to your left pointed to a five pound note that had been placed on the floor supposedly so you bent down to pick it up whilst an accomplice who was standing behind you to your right (who had memorised your id code) would snatch at the right moment your card and run off etc etc. this was an eastern european creation, it happened to me (attempted to) quite a few times when i lived on a mkt there and always by eastern europeans, never heard of it before. the police who i went to see said it was an eastern european thing and that they had a real problem with it

PaisleyII- Funnily enough, this scamhappened to my grandad not long ago.

bullet - i remember at the time i had fortunately read about it just a few days before it happened in one of those free local papers. it had said how eastern european gangs were going round doing this and it went on to explain what they did. i didn't fall for it when it happaned but it was scary. there were about four of them, two on watch (i clocked them) and then one either side of me. i must have been feeling brave at the time as i warned the women next to me to be on her guard, she asked me to stay with her. i am only small,i think my anger took hold, then we went to the local police station which was on the market itself but the police already knew about it. up until we went to the police station which was fortuantely near i saw the eastern euros' watching and following us,i can't believe i did that really, to wait with this women, they were giving me the finger sign as they knew i had warned her about what they were going to attempt. the police said they had had a real problem with this, it was a knew thing but was going on all over east london