to not care about immigration?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

So many people seem to have a huge problem with it and I really don't understand why.

The crazy thing is, I live in a hugely multicultural area and most of the people I know who have a problem with this, live in predominantly white suburbs.

We have a problem here with alcoholic homeless people fighting and screaming in the streets - none of them are immigrants.

ccpccp I live in leicester ..I don't know anyone that is heartbroken about what it has become

It is a lively multicultal City and I wouldn't have it any other way ,and if you were there when the EDL march occurred you would have seen how all the people be they black ,white or asian protested against them.
Maybe people should stop listening to their mates and the bloke up the road

paisleyII you are a racist ..pure and simple

It seems AlpinePony that we are under some moral obligation to feed, house and provide healthcare to the rest of the world while they drain us of our industry and wealth.

I think the reason is becasue we shot some people a few centuries ago or something. So as a result we owe them until our own children are in poverty.

Like Fuck.

Yes, unless the world becomes one large, tightly regulated, socialist state in which resources are distributed fairly between all. That will never happen because free-Market capitalism is now the all-pervasive force and I don't think we can ever kill that behemoth.

I predict that, as has started in Europe, there will be a gradual de-restriction in freedom of movement, with other countries permitting movement over their Borders. There is already a similar arrangement to European free movement in some of the more stable African states.

Of course, if we were to suddenly open our Borders, it would ruin the stability of our economy, but I truly believe that this is how the world will change over the next 100 years and that it would be a positive thing in the long term.

It is the only solution to reaching a situation where we do not have children in one country starving to death, whilst those in another get to be treated to foreign holidays and new trainers each month.

Hopefully, this will be achievable without reducing the standard of living we enjoy in the UK by too much, but even if it does, I think it would be justified. I see no justification in British families having holidays in Disney world whilst others cannot afford basic healthcare.

This is why we need to see immigration as a positive thing. We need to stop seeing foreigners as the enemy and start treating them as people to whom we have an obligation as much as the less fortunate in the UK.

But if the only way to force change is through the derestriction of movement so be it.

call me what you like, it is what i expect from the liberal ruling left on MN, they always resort to name calling thinking it will change how many of us feel, well it hasn't worked :)

well you can't argue with stupid ,paisleyII

Heartbroken is exactly what many people are in Leicester Usual.

Apparently its tough to see your city taken from you and be unable to do anything about it.

When a cities biggest claim to fame is its Diwali festival you know things have gone seriously wrong somewhere.

"Not care about immigration"?

Very difficult to say as a generality because I think it does depend to a large extent where you live within the UK.

Foe example Cornwall is 99% white and I for one have never met a black or asian person so the pressures and difficulties with large ethnic minorities that some have mentioned on here (not that I have read every comment) do not affect me or anyone I know.

I can only compare it with the difficulties we have with English second home owners forcing up local house prices which causes a lot of resentment.

If there were only a few then no one would notice but in some parts of Cornwall it has become a very serious problem indeed so it's probably more a question of numbers than anything else.

I think that's pretty cool, but then I don't live in Leicester. I live in Wandsworth and it's fairly diverse, which I also like - not because diversity is good for diversity's sake but because it just mixes it up a bit after growing up in Surrey.

There was not a single black or asian person in my school. It did give me a fairly insular view of things and made me a bit racist (unintentionally) for a while in that I was wary of immigrants/minorities. Definitely not now, which is good.

Mrdarsey: it's not a myth: it's a process of osmosis. You name countries which have a regulated standard of living. But where there is no, literally no social provision, accompanied by the opportunity to avail oneself of social provision, it is inevitable and natural to try to do so.

It does not necessarily mean "benefits" - that is a rather limited view. Britain is a country where, largely, the laws work, the roads are smooth, there is public transport, housing regulation, civil legal protection and a general civil code which protects the individual.

For the wealthy, a larger population means more customers, more voters, more consumers.

usual - you are the stupid one, stereo typical you are here on MN, just because someone dares to voice their views about now wanting mass immigration to continue you shout racist/stupid. i am only surprised that it took you this long to call me racist. tbh i don't give a shit you calling me that, i think you call people that because you want to 'shame' and shut them up, just the way labour did so no one dared mention immigration so they could continue with their own plan. if i am racist then so is half the country. you over use the term too, as it is not being racist to not want your country to change beyond recognition, you are the stuipd but also seriously annoying one here. you only know to name call in a way to make you feel you are overpowering someone who has an opinion that you hate, i don't give a shit, you are right up there with the best of them for turning this country into what it now is, thanks for that

Thistledew: I also think you discount to a certain extent the import of unpleasant elements of civil code. People feel very threatened by this too.

CCPC or whatever: I think your tone is hostile and unpleasant to be honest.

I've been a "controlled" immigrant and it seems to work. You pay, you obey the local laws and customs and you don't impose your way. Except of course local people sometimes complain that one pushes up the staff rates.

What do you mean, Gooseberry? If you are talking about the existance of sharia courts in the UK, then I think you have misunderstood their impact. None of their provisions have been imported into our civil law, and neither should they be.

No, I wasn't thinking of that. I'm thinking of slavery, fgm, acid attacks and so on.

~Sorry - I'm not talking about the law, I'm talking about a civil code: hostility between ethnic groups, "acceptable" and casual racism between ethnic groups or social groups of the same ethnicity. If it helps, I also dislike the import of Americanisation - if I could close every Macdonalds I would do it in a flash.

I don't really understand your point. These things do happen in the UK but fortunately our criminal justic system is mostly robust enough to deal with it. They happen far more abroad. Surely it is not an argument against immigration to say that it is better that the victims and offenders stay in a country where the former has no protection, and there is no prosecution against the latter?

I think your idea of importing crimes in order for them to be dealt with more efficiently than in a home country is a little esoteric.

I think we are failing to understand each other spectacularly. You seemed to be saying that we should keep these nasty people out because they do bad things to each other. I was trying to point out that we have the means to deal with this and it is not a fair argument to say to the potential victims that they can't come here because other people of their nationality may do bad things.

I care less about immigration now living in the countryside than I did working in Social Services in London. I met immigrants from everywhere, all lovely people, from all walks of life. But the cost of translators was immense, the diificulty of integration for people who couldn't speak english immense, the impact on waiting lists (people were taking 3 years to be seen) immense, the lack of housing, appalling (people would bid on a council house to have 500+ people bid on the same house) There were over 15000 waiting for a council house. Labour supporters say "build more houses" but where, these people wanted to live in London, in their communities, not in the suburbs or up north. Also, financially, alot were on full housing support and benefits and on them from the time they arrive and never had got off them as they were caught in the poverty trap that makes so many british born people not work either. Where i am now, the polish builders will undercut the local builders significantly, so a good thing for me fitting out my house, but not for the locals. So we need immigration, but migrants that will contribute and build the country not ones who take everything but not give back.

The trouble is some of them bring over their own baggage. They are used to violence, bribery and corruption and this continues over here.

I think Paisley has a point. the minute anyone dares criticise multiculturalism etc the big R word comes out. Most people I know are fed up with too much immigration especially if you have worked in education.

The other thing is that 80% of the sex workers in London are from abroad, which to me is a concern, we think we are so great in this country, but tell that to the enslaved sex worker.

Parts of West London now have the highest tuberculosis rates in the world next to India, so it definately affects the NHS, not just maternity services. I got that nugget of knowledge after I had to have a TB test (chest x-ray) after been consistently exposed to active TB sufferers.

There is a cupboard. It's not massive, but it's not teeny tiny. It's full of the most wonderful things, in all beautiful colours and styles, which rest upon well supported shelves and hooks.

But the cupboard keeps having more and more things shoved in it willy-nilly. These things are -in the main- still beautiful, but they are simply thrown in without care or attention. The shelves start bowing under the weight, and the hooks get a little warped.

But the cupboard owner doesn't care, and carries on filling it. Then the door starts to buckle and groan, because it can't quite shut properly.

Do you A) Sort out the cupboard, fix the shelves and hooks, distribute all the pretty things evenly and tidily, fix the door and stop cramming things in.

Or B) Just carry on regardless, until everything inside breaks including the support shelves and hooks, and ALL the beautiful things inside get crushed and damaged and the door busts open due to the pressure?

If we were the size of Australia, I don't think anyone would care. But when people feel they need to start competing for resources, that's when things get ugly.
My distant ancestors fled to here several hundred years ago, dispersed and got on with it. But now we have a situation where, for example, my mate (who fled Amin's regime) is angry because he, in his own words "came here legally, worked hard and made lots of friends, and now spend most of my day chasing illegal xxx shoplifters out of my shop who then threaten me...it's not fair"

Parts of my town are now no-go areas, sexual crimes have gone through the roof, and yes, we do have our own home-grown scumbags, but that doesn't explain why over 90% of the wanted perps are NOT homegrown scummers.
I myself stopped going out because of constant sexual harrassment from 'Kosovans'. Whereas if you told the local lads to keep their hands to themselves they'd lope off slurring "hey, sorry babe", the 'Kosovans' would either do a throat-slitting mime at you OR actually pull a knife on you.
HIV cases in my town has gone through the roof. MOST of them aquired in Africa. The TB wards have been re-opened.

NOBODY is saying "let's invite Hitler round for tea", but people who ARE being affected by this are saying "look, this has got a teeeensy bit silly".

I LOVE the diversity and beauty, the food!, the clothes, the languages, music et cetera, but I do not love how silly it's getting.
When I lived abroad, if I had asked for a 'council' flat, I would have been laughed out of the office, and rightly so. I had to undergo tests for TB, HIV, all the heps, psychological assessments, and rightly so. When we found out that local people had been fired because The Managment could hire us for an Nth of the price, we didn't renew our contracts.

It is not up to us to constantly bail out crap governments in other countries, because then what incentive do they have to stop being crap?

In other words - I will give you a pint of blood whenever I can, I will give you some of my bone marrow if you need it. But you can fuck off if you think that you are taking ALL of my blood and my internal organs too.

Thistle - what are the "more stable African countries"?

I see you are still living in your little bubble ....

Paisley, ccpccp, ohanotherone, - agree with you, ( and so do 90% of the UK population I should imagine)

Usualsuspect - you really should stick to threads that do not require very much thought - style&beauty for example.