to not care about immigration?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

So many people seem to have a huge problem with it and I really don't understand why.

The crazy thing is, I live in a hugely multicultural area and most of the people I know who have a problem with this, live in predominantly white suburbs.

We have a problem here with alcoholic homeless people fighting and screaming in the streets - none of them are immigrants.

what's wrong with knowing a fair few of your neighbours? the fact that some view this as both unusual and suspicious says it all really. i like to chat to people, especially old people as they get a raw deal of it in this day and age. there are a fair few in my street too, living on their own and it is good to acknowledge them as it brightens peoples day if they have had a chat with someone. it also makes life more interesting if you talk to other people. when i met and chatted to the lady who is a midwife initially i couldn't believe the stuff she was telling me. for years i have heard all sorts of stuff about our local hospital/maternity ward so i found it incredibly interestin to get all this info' right from the horses mouth so to speak. as for my cousin, other neighbours etc, it is just life. my dh keeps himself to himself and teases me as i always seem to talk to people, guess i have that kind of face, he thinks i should work with people in a community thing, i would like that. try and bring people together more. that was what made me sad actually when i went to devon, old school there but people seemed to look out for one another, living int he east end you don't, at least where i live andhave lived, you just don't get that, a real transient feeling, feeling of distrust and as if people don't care. but if you smile at someone, maybe talk to them, it breaks barriers and feels really good. if i didn't work i think i would really like to do something communityish

Thistledew - I agree with you. Not a popular view nowadays, though.

I just feel so so sad reading this thread. So many of you trying to blame others for everything that is not perfect. It's easy to hate 'others', 'newcomers' and pin any trouble, real or imagined, on them.

Immigration doesn't increase unemployment. Immigrants do have to eat and clothe, so they create jobs as well as take them. It's thrice as difficult for immigrants to find jobs as most employers do prefer locals. And I never heard about immigrant agreeing to work for less then his co-workers. This would be a serious court case. People from India found a way around it by running their own businesses. There would be little but huge supermarkets and chains if not for them. Tradesman will always complain as in ideal world they would have no competition and charge whatever for any inferior job.

I do not understand the rants about NHS. Immigrants are patients as well as medical staff and taxpayers, so it all evens-out, doesn't it? Immigrants from Europe claim far less benefits than UK population, many shun even Child Benefit. As for social housing, the ones I know live in flats no locals want, high-rise blocks mostly. But vast majority prefer to rent or buy. We're not used to any help from the state and never expected it when we came here.

And if overpopulation will ever proves to be an issue it is going to be a global one and not something anyone can close their doors on. Countryside is being turned into plots because high rise flats are being taken down and everyone aspires to a five-bed detached in the suburbs and not because of immigration. The council houses built in my area (mine is ex-council) are all semi-detached and terraced with big gardens . Lovely but will take up more land than blocks of flats.

paisleyII I think you have missed my point ...I know lots of my neighbours ,they are from all different cultures,they are all different colours

I don't only chose the nice white ones to get to know

Its interesting people mention Leicester, because I know lots of people from there who remember Leicester from a time before stupid immigration levels. They are heartbroken at what it has become.

These are normal left leaning people and they are gutted at how they once defended the influx. Now they live isolated in the biggest asian population in Europe, with MPs like Keith Waz encouraging more and more people in (anyone remember the passport selling scandal?).

When the asian population in Leicester city got higher than the local population, they started including outlying districts in the figures. Apparently the UK isnt ready for a large city to be predominatly asian yet.

Funny that.

Posters would do well to look at what Leicester has become, and ask if they want that for the rest of the country. Its where we are headed.

usual - you are talking bollocks, you are deliberately looking to be defensive with me and have accused me of having done something that i have NOT done. my whole point was that i am a sociable person and do not like living among people who clearly do not want to be associated with anyone outside of their own clique. having said that why do YOU assume that the people i am friendly with are white. my whole point is that i want to be friendly with people accross the board, if i didn't then i would be quite happy wouldn't i if i were a racist to be friendly only with white people. i have already stated that one of my closest friends is from india and another friend is from korea, so bloody annoying and typical of pro mass immigration posters here on MN accusing people of saying something that they have not, so bloody typical, and bullish

ccp - this is the thing, it isn't just white english people that are against mass immigration, that is a whitewash, it is all sorts of people who have lived here for years, i know or have known/overheard many people who are not white english to moan about it. why should the people that already live in this country be delighted about having their home become crowded and end up living in an area where they feel isolated and living among strangers. i already live in an area heading that way having already moved away from an area that was exactly like that. it is a lonely place and try as i did to build some neighbourly friendships it was useless so i gave up trying. so many people feel like this, that is why labour didn't get voted back in, people are pissed off.

What about emigration? You know, all those Brits we inflict on the rest of the world? Don't a fair few Mumsnetters fall into this category? Hadn't ought to be allowed.

Immigration far outstrips emigration.

And people dont emigrate for free healthcare and easy access to benefits because no other country is stupid enough to give them so freely.

Being opposed to mass immigration does not equal racism.

I have to admit that I am quite shocked at some of the attitudes here (haven't read the whole thread, though).
I am a legal migrant (european). I am not taking any jobs away (my job requires me to speak 3 european languages fluently, unfortunately many british people don't do that). I pay taxes, tv license...and I definitely didn't come here for the free healthcare!

and what about all those pensioners that spend their retirement in spain? they are taking up lots of recources in healthcare etc...

I lived in East London and agree with a lot of what paisley said.

My views are based on experience not the daily mail, sun or express. (Don't read them) And I certainly wouldn't vote BNP.

Immigration can be a good thing but the numbers are too high. It does put a strain on housing, schools and the NHS. I don't know how people can't see how an increase in population wouldn't do this.

I used maternity services when I lived there and witnessed for my self large numbers of foreign mothers. A lot of these mums come from countries where having four or five kids is the norm. A lot have about four or five kids here. Maternity services were crap. No antenatal classes and left alone for most of my labour. Not their fault I know but increasing the population when services are so poor is hardly common sense. Just like increasing the population when there is a shortage of housing. And putting lots of non english speaking pupils into deprived schools where standards are already poor.

My experiences are very similar to yours, MotherSnacker!

You are a skilled migrant mousymouse - welcome.

But the other couple of migrant families who arrived at the same time as you did have degrees in cleaning, shelf stacking and benefit claiming.

We have more than enough locals who have those qualifications. Just look at the dole figures.

if i were an eastern european coming her whilst i totally understand why they would want/need to come here surely despite their need they are aware of the great numbers that are also coming over and thus can understand it from the point of view from the population already here that that large a number is bound to rock the boat, especially in a recession where unemployment is high. i must admit, i am getting slightly irritated how frequent when talking to someone who is eastern european they say something derogatory about english people. i get the feeling that alot of eastern europeans don't like english people much, i know it is of the norm for them to think we are all lazy and not as good as them workwise. whenever i talk to someone of eastern european background which i do often ie in cafes where they work, at some point in the conversatin they will usually drop in how hard they work and that they will always ben given jobs over english people as they work harder. whilst this is true in alot of instances they certainly don't work harder than all english people, if that were the case, england would be a heap and they wouldn't want to have come here in the first place

And people dont emigrate for free healthcare and easy access to benefits because no other country is stupid enough to give them so freely.

This argument is used in a lot of countries actually, I'm Swedish and people who don't like immigration there say the exact same thing. So there are other countries as "stupid" as the UK.

I would also like to say that I did not come to the UK for free healthcare and benefits and get very offended by people assuming so.

I think a lot of people do actually. Some don't but some do. Britain is an amazing country. Tolerant and generous. It's not surprising if that's attracftive.

YANBU people who complain about immigration taking their jobs are stupid IMO. If another person/company can offer your service to your customers for cheaper then they are just more competitive and you need to boost your level of competitiveness or go bust, its not the Governments job to protect you.

"its not the Governments job to protect you"

Yes it is.

Particularly the LABOUR party.

It is the Government's job "To protect the local labour market".

Successive governments have failed to recognise that the country needs skilled professionals such as plumbers electricians etc. They also need to stop welfare dependency by ensuring employers have to pay a decent minimum wage without pricing ourselves out of the international market, and reulating the banking and housing sectors more effectively to ensure that those who can pay a mortgage can get one and those who can't have a reasonable opportunity to rent housing that is not sub-standard and over-priced.

Parents have a responsibility to teach their children that if they can't afford something then they can't have it. If, as a couple, you have a car each and go on holiday abroad each year then you are not going to be able to save for a house deposit. If you have kids before you get on the housing ladder accept that was your choice and live with it.

Immigration is a factor in the UK today, but so are a great many other things that individuals, employers and governments have to deal with in conjunction with the immigration issue.

I must admit I can't see any argument between controlled and uncontrolled immigration, because while there are differences in countries' social provision it has to be controlled. It's a no brainer. People will want to move from places with no social provision to places with social provision. These will be the less fortunate members of the society with no social provision in their home country. Therefore they will compete with and displace the less fortunate in the new country. Therefore there will be a problem. It's not difficult to see why the richest have no problem with uncontrolled immigration and the poorest do. They might put it down to their education, openmindedness and tolerance, but really it's down to their wealth.

Gooseberrybushes

You seem to be repeating the old myth that immigration is caused by people wanting to live in a country where they can skive off the benefits system.

If that were the case, you'd see millions of Americans coming to live here and we'd all be moving to France or Sweden, because in each case the welfare provision is better in the destination country. This doesnt happen because the main reason for immigration in reality is people seeking opportunities to work or set up businesses - either because their own countries don't offer any chances for ambitious people or because the job situation at home really is hopeless. Sadly these are the conditions in vast areas of the world thanks to the inequalities caused by the world's economic system, and that's why you get large scale immigration.

Upping sticks to go and live in a totally different country with a different language, culture etc. is a huge decision and I don't think many people would do it unless they really had to.

Therefore there will be a problem. It's not difficult to see why the richest have no problem with uncontrolled immigration and the poorest do. They might put it down to their education, openmindedness and tolerance, but really it's down to their wealth.

Nail on the proverbial head, hit right there!

It is not the very poorest that have a problem with uncontrolled immigration. The very poorest are those who are desperate to do anything to make a better life for themselves and their families, and to whom immigration control seems like a cruel joke. The real 'poorest' people do not see anyone in the UK as poor.

That sentence may be more accurate if you say that the wealthy and the poorest are the least likely to complain about derestricted immigration. The ones in the middle are more bothered with pulling up the drawbridge to keep the poorest out than persuading the richest to share their wealth.

Are you saying then that the borders should be open to all "third world style poor" and every persecuted person in the world?

E.g., Uganda is having terrible problems with their human rights record in respect to gays. If 1 in 10 men is gay, can we really give asylum to the entire Ugandan gay population?

India has a population of a billion and is it 700,000,000 of those live in poverty? Should we invite them all?

Unfortunately we can't look after everyone in trouble. :(