to think there's no item of clothing or lack of that puts a woman at risk of sexual assault?

[countless]

i was just listening to 2 women and a man on r4 discussing the upcoming slut march, the name makes me cringe but i get the idea behind it...
the consensus of the 2 women was that women should be aware that what they wear has an effect upon other people that they is out of their control...

the male presenter very wisely didn't comment.

am i alone in thinking this is profoundly depressing? do people still think that it's womens clothing or lack of that encourages sexual assault??

why don't people realise that any woman or girl is at risk from a rapist and that no one is 'asking for it'. which is the message i take from discussions on womens clothing

[millie30]

So now women's bodies are commodities to be compared with laptops and purses. Should women hide the fact that they are female? After all, the majority of rape victims are female.

[CravingExcitement]

Can anyone quote any statistics that show that women are more likely to get raped the less clothing they wear? I think this is unlikely.

[NetworkGuy]

Oh, that's a bit petty, millie, because the sense was clear "do not take undue risk".

[MoreBeta]

NetworkGuy - you make some fair points about the impact of women dressing in revealing clothing. Yes I would have looked away too. Sometimes I think that women need to consider whether in some situations more modest or formal clothing might be more appropriate (eg work situations).

However PrinceHumperdink makes the more powerful point that yes even though us heterosexual men find women attractive we still have free will and the vast vast majority of us do not feel the need to rape.

[millie30]

Why is it petty? It is clear that some women will be raped despite not taking any specific "risks." I was.

If we are going to continue on a path of making the victim partially culpable, then surely hiding gender is the logical next step.

[TrillianAstra]

So are we just going to go round in circles here?

There is a difference between acknowledging that you should take a sensible approach to risk management and saying that anyone "deserves what they get".

[chibi]

Can i interest you in a pillarbox disguise millie?

[BimboNo5]

Well said Trillian

[millie30]

Yes please chibi, they sound lovely!

[chibi]

Some of you are being v provocative and i will not be held responsible when i finally give in to my urges and start slapping rape myth spouters

[LittleWhiteWolf]

And what risk management can we employ to prevent being murdered? I can see a lot of comparisons with theft and burglary which are plain stupid, but how about murder?

Don't be in a room alone with a murderer?
In that case, don't be alone in a room with a rapist, to avoid being raped.
Surely thats the only risk management we can use for both of those situations. Trouble is, unless (like me) you work in a prison holding both of the aforementioned types of offenders, you will never know who is a murderer or a rapist until it is too late.

To say anything else, anything is nothing short of insulting to the victim and allows the perpetrator the chance to lose a little bit (or a lot or all!) of responsibility.

[CravingExcitement]

Maybe it would be a better idea if all men had to wear clothing that made them less likely to rape, some kind of male chastity belt.

[RunAwayWife]

My sister was attacked walking home in a work suit (trousers, top and jacket)and a coat, hardly sexually provocative,

Sadly though we live in a world where sex sells and even clothes aimed at children have sexual undertones

[chibi]

Curfews for men are also a v good idea, they could also be chaperoned.

[squeakytoy]

Add message | Report | Message poster CravingExcitement Sun 15-May-11 11:56:44
squeakytoy, "prettiness" or not has no bearing on whether a woman is likely to be raped, or men wouldn't rape elderly ladies, who in our society are definitely not considered "pretty"




You clearly missed the posts then, were I said quite a few times that a womans looks have absolutely no bearing on stranger rape.

It is about power and humiliation.



CravingExcitement Sun 15-May-11 12:16:34
Can anyone quote any statistics that show that women are more likely to get raped the less clothing they wear? I think this is unlikely.


The statistics show that a woman in less clothes and shoes that she can not run in, are more are risk than a woman wearing less accessible clothes, which would allow her to struggle more, and shoes in which she would be able to run away quicker. That is a fact, not an assumption.

A rapist out on the streets is not interested in if it is a designer bodycon dress on a woman who looks like a model, or a primark copy on a woman who looks like the back end of a bus, he is not looking at her face or a price tag, he is thinking about how easy it would be to rape her, because he wants to rape someone. He doesnt give a shit if she is 19 or 90. He looks for an easy target.

[RunAwayWife]

Rape is about power, not sex

[CravingExcitement]

Yes it's obviously men who need to modify their behaviour, not women.

[CravingExcitement]

So why did you use the word "pretty" in your post?
And why do women wearing "modest" clothes get raped?
Don't you think that by harping on about what women wear or don't wear, there is a danger that we might miss the point? Rapists are responsible for rape, not their victims.

[TidyDancer]

LWW, with respect, you are insulting by saying there is no other possible perspective to come from. This is clearly and very understandably an emotive and complex subject. But there is more than one perspective and more than one opinion. Yours is no more correct than mine, or anyone else's. To repeat, again, my perspective is not one in which I believe any woman is responsible in any way for a sexual assault. It's not unheard of or unusual for different opinions to come out of that one point.

[TidyDancer]

Because, Craving, there are no absolutes. squeaky's perspective is entirely understandable and has been explained very well.

[MillyR]

There's no evidence that what you wear has any impact on your chances of being raped. It clearly increases the chances of non-rapists propositioning you, but that is an entirely separate matter to the psychology of men who rape or sexually assault women.

It is very dangerous to tell young women that what they wear will put them in danger or keep them safer, because it stops them concentrating on the actual thing that puts them in danger - the behaviour of dangerous men and the signals that those men give off in entirely ordinary, non-sexual situations.

I suspect the reason women tell themselves that what they wear will reduce their chances of rape and sexual assault is because they want to believe they are not the kind of person that gets raped, and believe that people that get raped are people who go to nightclubs in minidresses, heels and flirt with men. In reality, you're more likely to be raped by your friend, work colleague or neighbour, in your own home, while wearing your jeans.

Tell your daughters to spend less time worrying about their own behaviour and more time monitoring the behaviour of the men they know well and would let walk into their home in the middle of the day, because those are the people that rape most women.

[ChantingAsISpeak]

"Being in close proximity to a rapist is guaranteed to increase your chances of being raped. Living in a society peddling rape myths will decrease your chances of securing a conviction."

I totally agree. The more we (as a society) promote the myth that what we wear contributes to an attack the more we convince the males in our society that they cannot control their urges and therefore it is ok to attack/assault/rape.

If you owned an Aston Martin and I stole it would you be blamed? I don't think so!

As a teacher I have already noticed an unpleasant change in the way teenage boys react and speak to girls compared to 10 years ago. Even more worrying, the number of girls who feel they have to behave in a particular way to appeal to men. We need to take this seriously and stop making excuses for violent and aggressive behaviour.

[CravingExcitement]

Still wondering about that "pretty" in her post.
And it still doesn't change the fact that if men didn't rape, there would be no rape.

[squeakytoy]

I used the word pretty, to impress that the fact the woman was pretty made no difference to the offence happening.

I think anyone with an iota of common sense understands that victims are not responsible for the rapists actions, but as women we can also put ourselves in less danger by being aware of the risks and doing what we can to minimise them where possible.

Does anyone seriously think if we sit all the men in the world down and say "now gentleman, women can wear what they want, it isnt an invitation to rape a woman if she is wearing a short skirt or walking on her own in a deserted area" that they will all nod and say "ok, we understand, we will not do it anymore then".

You can not make a rapist rethink the way his warped mind works. You can only make the potential victims more aware of the dangers and consider their own safety where possible.