to think there's no item of clothing or lack of that puts a woman at risk of sexual assault?

[countless]

i was just listening to 2 women and a man on r4 discussing the upcoming slut march, the name makes me cringe but i get the idea behind it...
the consensus of the 2 women was that women should be aware that what they wear has an effect upon other people that they is out of their control...

the male presenter very wisely didn't comment.

am i alone in thinking this is profoundly depressing? do people still think that it's womens clothing or lack of that encourages sexual assault??

why don't people realise that any woman or girl is at risk from a rapist and that no one is 'asking for it'. which is the message i take from discussions on womens clothing

[BimboNo5]

It sounds awful but I really DO believe the clothes you wear do give people an impression of you false or otherwise. If a woman walks round in clothes that show all she's got and looks a bit of a tart then men will probably assume she is one.

[millie30]

BimboNo5, what does men thinking a woman is a "tart" have to do with rape?

[CravingExcitement]

What and a "tart" deserves to be raped?

[LDNmummy]

And why should I be responsible for watching my every step my whole life because some evil git out there gets his kicks from rape? I should be free to live my life how I wish as long as it does not infringe on others.

[BimboNo5]

I didnt say anyone deserved to be raped. But some women invite an awful lot of 'unwanted attention' themselves by flaunting their sexuality/body

[NetworkGuy]

"obviously mad then!"

not at all - it's awkward because while women dress how they want "for themselves" and not necessarily to attract partners, they may sometimes be perceived as wanting to attract partners (and for all I know the desired partner might be another female!)

Yesterday I was walking along, minding my own business and three twenty-something young women overtook me. One was talking about her forthcoming marriage, all were quite jolly after a shopping trip (by the number of bags).

One had a short black skirt on, down to hardly an inch below her bottom, and had to constantly pull it down. It was difficult to ignore, so I crossed the road, and no way would I say she was 'asking for' anything (attention, or being assaulted), but sometimes without wishing to, clothing will get car drivers' attention, wolf-whistles from a building site, unwanted verbal comments, or physical attention, and no way would the perpetrator be free of guilt, or the woman be 'asking for it' but one cannot ignore the clothing being an integral part of the situation.

Don't think I expect women to need to wear drab clothes, or be unable to show their natural features, but perhaps sometimes a couple of inches more fabric would make the difference, rather than showing bare midriff or a lot of leg or having trousers seemingly falling down...

It can even be embarrassing as an onlooker when (as happend in recent weeks) a young woman with her daughter was waiting outside the supermarket. Child walking about chattering to her mum. Mum (waiting for her own Mum to come out of supermarket) was sat on low wall, leaning forward. Trousers low cut, cheeks of her bottom uncovered because she had a g-string on. Was just feet in front of me while I was waiting for a neighbour to finish shopping so I could get a lift home. I looked away, but could have been classed a 'dirty old man' if I hadn't done so. Not fun to be put in that position without any wish!

[CravingExcitement]

How do you define "tart" then? And why should such a person have less human rights than others?

[LDNmummy]

"flaunting their sexuality/body"

Pray tell how one does that? By not conforming to what is considered morally acceptable by others? By your logic the Taliban are right to shoot women for exposing their hair because they consider THAT a flaunting of sexuality. Of course then it is the woman's fault right?? She shouldn't have been flaunting her sexuality surely?

[BimboNo5]

Who said they deserve less human rights than others? Why are you putting words I havent said into my text?

[millie30]

Bimbo yes, a woman who is dressed in such a way may get attention, compliments, looked at. I'm still struggling to understand the connection with rape though.

[BimboNo5]

Im sorry but women who have their breasts and fandango showing to all and sundry cant really complain when they get male attention. Thats not me saying the deserve to get raped at all, but use some common sense!

[CravingExcitement]

You said that they invite unwanted attention by the way they dress, I inferred that you meant that women who dress in a certain way lose their right to go about their business without harrassment. Sorry if I got that wrong.

[NetworkGuy]

"use some common sense!" - nice idea. Problem is, how much flesh is too much flesh, on show.

[chibi]

What should people spouting rape myths wear in order to prevent me wanting to slap the shit out of them?

[millie30]

NetworkGuy unless you are saying that seeing exposed flesh renders you uncontrollable, why can't you just go about your own business and let them go about theirs?

[NetworkGuy]

"were you so overpowered by your dread male need to procreate"

of course not, but just as one (as man, or perhaps woman) could never give an unrelated child a sweet, or a hug, or perhaps even look at them in a park, these days, without some concern, we're in a blame-game society where one has to watch ones back the whole time, or so it seems to me, as a male.

[Takeresponsibility]

It is NOT my fault if I am raped, and I do not accept culpability simply because I am the gender that is the the victim of rape the majority of the time, but it is my responsibility to ensure that I have the skills and the knowledge to lessen the risk of being a victim of crime.

If I am going out drinking I pre-arrange how I am geting home. If I were going on a first or second date I would arrange to meet in a poublic place, have my own transport and arrange a time to check in with a friend. I know various skills and techniques, both verbal and physical, to protect myself etc.

Rape is about abuse and power and the whole point is that the victim is powerless to stop the perpetrator. It is often the case that we are selected as the victim owing to reasons beyond our control, but it is naive and dangerous for us, (and our daughters) to think that a little common sense in what we wear and do won't lessen the risk (in some circumstances)of being selected as the victim.

[TidyDancer]

No, I am certainly not saying that Prince, I'm glad you realise that. I suspect that people coming at this from different angles will, on the whole, not be able to accept other's opinions, even if they can respect the perspectives. My argument is not how you are reading it, though I think since the complexity of the issue is so enormous, it's easy to see how you are coming to that conclusion. As I have said repeatedly, this is not about any level of responsibility of the female in any given situation. I just think this is too difficult for a universal opinion to be expected.

[CookieRookie]

Prostitutes get raped. They are agreeing to have sex with a man and yet some are raped. It has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with violence, humiliation and non-consent.

[BimboNo5]

They dont lose their right but its common sense as I say- like leaving your purse open in a busy bar/club, leaving a laptop on view in the car, doesnt give people the 'right' to steal and they are still the criminal but fgs there are always going to be bad people in the world, do what YOU can to prevent being a victim!

[LDNmummy]

What about some cultures where women walk around with their breasts on show as the norm? Are they inciting unwanted sexual attention?

It is not what the women are doing, it is dependent on how others choose to view it and define it.

[NetworkGuy]

millie - of course I let them go about theirs, and I am not rendered 'uncontrollable', but I cannot vouch for all the male gender, and some of those are rapists.

Still no excuse, but the word "provocation" is there in the background and a good lawyer may sway enough of a jury...