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to think there's no item of clothing or lack of that puts a woman at risk of sexual assault?

493 replies

countless · 15/05/2011 10:12

i was just listening to 2 women and a man on r4 discussing the upcoming slut march, the name makes me cringe but i get the idea behind it...
the consensus of the 2 women was that women should be aware that what they wear has an effect upon other people that they is out of their control...

the male presenter very wisely didn't comment.

am i alone in thinking this is profoundly depressing? do people still think that it's womens clothing or lack of that encourages sexual assault??

why don't people realise that any woman or girl is at risk from a rapist and that no one is 'asking for it'. which is the message i take from discussions on womens clothing

OP posts:
aliceliddell · 16/05/2011 10:40

It is not difficult. There is no reason for men to assume women are sexually available to them. Some men choose to make that assumption. That's all. Not complicated. Some men choose to rape women.

aliceliddell · 16/05/2011 10:42

X posted. Agree with dittany.

dittany · 16/05/2011 10:43

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dittany · 16/05/2011 10:44

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aliceliddell · 16/05/2011 10:44

Actually X posted with X stitch and PH too. Agree with both.

xstitch · 16/05/2011 10:47

The key is to change the system so that they don't get away with it. by:

a) Making it better for women to report the rape in the first place
b) For the woman not to be totally humiliated if it ever gets as far as court
c) Increase the percentage of cases that actually come to court
d) stiffer sentences for those found guilty

CogitoErgoSometimes · 16/05/2011 10:48

What anyone wears is not a defence or justification for a criminal act either by them or upon them. But it does influence perception and that has to be taken into account whether we like it or not. These arguments always end up getting very entrenched because rape is particularly nasty crime which does not have a good track record of investigation and prosecution.

But to go with a differerent example - the man opting to wear the hoodie with the hood up. He has to be prepared that some are going to see him as a potential aggressor and either be frightened of him or look at him as a threat. He has to be extra careful, therefore, not to add to that perception with his behaviour or he could put himself into harms way.

PrinceHumperdink · 16/05/2011 10:49

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xstitch · 16/05/2011 10:52

No it does not have to be taken into account. It is but it shouldn't be. IMO it is only relevant to mention what someone was wearing to aid identification especially to back up CCTV if that is available in that case (yes I do know it often happens behind closed doors)

CogitoErgoSometimes · 16/05/2011 10:58

There is an element of 'shit happens' to anyone's life. But everyone does things to try to increase their personal safety. In my group of friends we have a rule that no-one goes home solo after an evening.... when, strictly speaking, we should be able to walk or catch cabs at any hour of the day or night by ourselves without let or hindrance.... and when 99 times out of 100 nothing terrible would happen anyway. We tell our little kids not to speak to strangers when changes are that 99.9% of the strangers they are likely to speak have no bad intentions. We tell our older kids to call home if they're going to be late. If someone is determined to commit a crime, they will find a victim. But anything we can do to reduce the odds that it's us or anyone close to us, has to be a good thing.

So I disagree with the fatalistic attitude that there is 'fuck all' we can do. There is a lot we can do for ourselves.

PrinceHumperdink · 16/05/2011 11:01

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bejeezus · 16/05/2011 11:02

i havent read all the posts - so this may have been covered.

I think its a misconception that women wearing skimpy/sexy/ 'provocative' clothes are raped more often than women in normal/ dowdy/sesible clothes isnt it.

I know 4 women who have been raped in very different circumstances- 1 known rapist/ 1 date rape drug/ 2 on street-1at knife point, 1 at gun point. ALL 4 of these women were wearing trousers/ flat shoes and long sleeved tops with jackets

CogitoErgoSometimes · 16/05/2011 11:03

So you think nothing you do or don't do in your life puts you in greater or lesser risk of harm, ever? You have no influence over anything?

PrinceHumperdink · 16/05/2011 11:11

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dittany · 16/05/2011 11:13

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PrinceHumperdink · 16/05/2011 11:17

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SeriousWispaHabit · 16/05/2011 11:17

I cannot believe that a woman being raped can be compared to a house being burgled.

She is not a fucking commodity or asset.

She is an actual person, who presumably can say no and not give consent to being violated, a bit different to a house/car/whatever being unlocked and entered.

No comparison.

dittany · 16/05/2011 11:21

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millie30 · 16/05/2011 11:22

I'm amazed in these threads that women take the time and effort to come up with all of these wonderful ways that women can avoid being raped, despite no evidence to support this. Do they not realise the damage that these myths cause when they are perpetuated? That someone like me could torture myself into a breakdown because I was wearing shorts and a vest top when I was raped, showing my bare legs. Am I therefore partly responsible for attracting a rapist? Do some WOMEN really believe this shit?

dittany · 16/05/2011 11:23

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xstitch · 16/05/2011 11:33

I am not allowed any control over my life cogito. So I would say personally there is nothing I can do.

Let me tell you all something, it may help you understand where I am coming from (although I realise many of you do understand)

I have NEVER been drunk.
I have NEVER walked in a deserted place on my own.
I have NEVER taken any other intoxicating substance.
I have NEVER picked a man up for a one night stand.
I have NEVER snogged a man I have just met in a pub or a club.
I can't walk in heels so always wear flats.
I have NEVER worn a mini skirt I hate my legs.
I always have a jacket on because I feel the cold so never have it all 'hanging out.'
I always have me keys ready so I don't have to fumble for them
I always make a point of choosing my parking space carefully so it is in a well lit secure place. (secure as possible)
I have an attack alarm.
I lock my house door behind me as soon as I come in.
I keep my house windows always locked.
I make sure I am aware of who is around me.
I rarely go out unless its to work or to get shopping in but when I do I tell someone where I will be.

Guess what, I WAS STILL RAPED. Of course for some people it is more convenient to believe it was my fault that I deserved it. The person who it is most convenient for is my rapist. Anyone wanting to side with a rapist is obviously welcome to but it says a lot more about them than it does me.

PrinceHumperdink · 16/05/2011 11:34

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DontCallMePeanut · 16/05/2011 11:34

I never thought I'd agree with David Cameron, but in that article, I do.

What I think would be more interesting would be to see if the opinions of the young men questioned would change over time, how old they were at the time the survey was carried out, what circumstances these young men apparently believe it's ok to force women to have sex in...

This just proves to me sex eduction, either at home OR in the classroom is failing to cover rape to an acceptable level. In fact, I don't remember ever having it covered whilst I was at school

millie30 · 16/05/2011 11:37

Well David Cameron "talked the talk" in 2007. How bizarre then that one of the first things his government tried to do once in office was grant anonymity to rape suspects.

xstitch · 16/05/2011 11:37

(((hugs))) millie as I have said earlier in the thread it is easier for some people to kick the victim while they are down (metaphorically speaking) rather than stand up to the bullying rapist (lets face it they are bullies). You were NOT to blame, I know you weren't and many of us know it. TBH many of those who try to say it is the victim's fault actually know it too they are just to scared to admit that anyone can be a victim.

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