to think there's no item of clothing or lack of that puts a woman at risk of sexual assault?

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i was just listening to 2 women and a man on r4 discussing the upcoming slut march, the name makes me cringe but i get the idea behind it...
the consensus of the 2 women was that women should be aware that what they wear has an effect upon other people that they is out of their control...

the male presenter very wisely didn't comment.

am i alone in thinking this is profoundly depressing? do people still think that it's womens clothing or lack of that encourages sexual assault??

why don't people realise that any woman or girl is at risk from a rapist and that no one is 'asking for it'. which is the message i take from discussions on womens clothing

blackcurrants - not sure what you mean by the fact that most rapists are opportunistic rapists

How long do you think each rapist waits for that "opportunity"? How long do you think they ponder their desires and what it will take to fulfil them?

Very little of the opportunistic rape is opportunistic - the desire doesn't just appear on the way to the bookies

The principle of the issue is that innocent people should be free to go about their life safely.

Whether that means going out for a drink with friends, wearing attractive clothes, popping to the shop in a massive jumper, or just sitting at home, they are free and have the right to do that in safety.

They should not feel threatened of being attacked in these situations. Attacking someone is a crime and criminals should be brought to justice and face appropriate punishmemt.

Rape is very clear cut. It is penetration of a mouth, vagina or anus without consent. Consent is not a concept that is the least bit tricky. Only rapists quibble about it to justify their rapes.

To those that argue a man can only be raped by another man, that's a technicality imposed by the law. Just because the law doesn't recognise it as rape doesn't mean that it's not rape.

Does that mean that any abuse that occured before domestic abuse was made illegal was NOT abuse?

Back to the women avoiding being raped thing; I was thinking about this earlier. Lets say 3 women have been raped on the same stretch of road whilst walking home between the hours of 11pm and 1pm, on a friday night, over the past 3 weeks. You're heading home after work, and you usually walk down that road to get home. You're running later than usual, and it's 11:20pm. Do you walk down that road? I'd bloody hope not. If you've deliberately chosen to put something in action to safeguard yourself.

Peanut, a curfew for men with regular police patrols enforcing it until the rapist was caught would be much more useful.

I'm not saying it would have been, Lenin. I'm not saying that at all. Some women can't put anymore safeguarding in at all. Some women think that they deserve not to have fear struck into them. BUT if you purposely avoid the area he's been known to strike, that is safeguarding yourself. It's still not placing the blame on any other victims.

Robot, I agree there. But I'm saying a woman can make little decisions to safeguard herself. Also, a blanket curfew runs the risk of criminalising all men.

In many ways living in fear and changing the way you live significantly is increasing the power and influence. Its still letting them win.

There has to be a balance between being aware yet still living a life.. Society desperately needs to change so that not only criminals who have rights.

Apologies, I called you Peanut, DontCallMePeanut.

So you'd rather have a curfew for women? That kind of thinking is what prompted the setting up of the Reclaim the Night marches in the UK.

hugs Like I said, it's not always possible to avoid these situations or those people. I'm just saying in some situations, it is possiblle for people to avoid it.

What personality traits does a rapist posess? How can a woman teach herself to be aware she is hanging out with a rapist? I am sure many are charming and interesting, like a non rapist. Why should the owness be on a woman to look for signs of a rapist? Bizarre.

No, of course not. I'm just saying a curfew on either would be problematic.

xstitch, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think a changed route is saying to the rapist "you've won". staying indoors until said rapist was caught would be letting the rapist win.

PS, ayerobot (love the reference, great book) I don't bite if people call me peanut. It's just taken from a song :)

Scarlett, I'm not saying the responsibility is down to the woman, but I'm saying I'd rather know that certain traits are equatable to rapists, and be able to avoid the situation than just leave my fate in the hope it doesn't happen to me.

But maybe that's just me.

peanut - i was raped frequently. I did all i could to prevent him raping me. I put on tonnes of weight, stopped washing, deliberatly dressed in horrible clothes. nothing stopped him. Because as i said, it is not about sexual desire it is about power and control.

Of course i could have learned kung fu and tried to fighit him off. (it is advised not to fight off an attacker as this will usually escelate the violence)

or maybe he, as the rapist, could have just ya know, not raped me

but thanks for telling me that it was my own fault. cheers

A changed route doesn't help if you live on that road, though. So you either stay out or stay in at that time? Kind of like a curfew. You could always get a cab, I suppose, as long as it's not driven by someone like Worboys.

I agree PH. We need people to be out and about a lot more, then we are all safer. Same applies to kids going to the park/playing out in a traffic-quiet street without their parents.

MamazOn, at no point have I said it's the victims point. Before you jump on me, go back and read it. If you're already in the situation it's a lot more difficult, if not near on impossible to escape. I know that. You know what.

I'm trying to make valid fucking suggestions, in ways that women might be able to minimise the risk of being attacked. I'm not saying everyone CAN avoid being attacked. I have never said it is the victims fault.

Yet I'm the uinreasonable bitch.

anyone that feels that it is a womans responsibility to protect herself against rape or attack is allowing men the freedom to rape withouth guilt.

If i go out and leave my window open it doesn't give the man down the road to take my TV.

of course we all take as many steps as we can to prevent ourselves from being attacked. But there really are very few cases of stranger rape. You cannot protect yourself from all rape unless you walk round in a cast iron chastity belt and have the police commander holding the only key.

the only person to blame for a rape is the rapist. the only people resonsible for preventing rapes occuring is rapists.

YANBU.

Is it reasonable for people to steal a car because of what it looks like?

Where exactly have I tried to put the blame on the victim. Tell me? Because that would mean I blame my fucking self.

You can't just spot a rapist though. Hiw many times have you heard people say 'but he seemed so nice' after someone is arrested for some horrible crime. Its like stranger danger they look normal not like the bogey man.

Rapists are often clever, manipulative and outwardly charming. There are people who come across as smarmy yet wouldn't harm a fly and others the perfect gentleman hiding a vicious monster.

I agree though a curfew would be unfair on the innocent and imo again give the rapist more power.

I know xstitch.

All I'm saying is where a woman has a chance to safeguard herself, she should.

I'm not saying it's her fault if she gets raped. I'm really not.

I'm just sayiing excercising no caution is not thd rigtht wat to go./

Sorryd if I've offencded anyone.

Bye