to think that people who have young children aren't in a position to know whether it is harder not to have older children or teenagers?

[Anice]

but on the other hand people who have older children have been in both situations and can compare?

I am always a bit wary about giving advice about parenting babies/toddlers because my two are12 and 10 now and I suspect that the majority of my memories are very very flaky. I do know that for me the first two years of parenthood were at best grueling and at times felt like a horrible nightmare. Of course there were some lovely moments too, but I really don't enjoy babies at all. I generally feel that everything from then on has just got better and better. I'm sure that the teenage years will bring their challenges, and I suspect that waiting up for late arrivals is in some ways harder than waking up for night feeds (at least you know where the baby is and what they are doing) but I am still generally optimistic.

I told dd (the 10 year old) that there would be times when she is a teenager that she will probably feel like she hates me and she looked very shocked

I meant to cut and paste when someone said, right at the beginning, that at least you get to sleep at night with teens. I meant to cut and paste it to say
hahahahahahahahahaha - no wait - hahahahahahahaha but, in retrospect, that might be a bit smug of me to laugh like a loon. the cut and paste didn't work and I'm not going back

But, are you kidding? Trying to sleep at 2, 3, 4am waiting for teen to get in, up at 7am to get the other ones off to school/go to work. In the end I made a conscious decision to just go to sleep, reasoning that if something happened I'd at least have the benefit of having had some sleep. I was out of my mind with lack of sleep and could even look in the face the prospect that dd1 might die and I'd be asleep when she did.

When no 2 was born he howled all night, then when he finally nodded off at about 6am I was 'up' (ha!) in the morning with no 1. I lost my marbles a bit at that stage too. It may be selective remembering but I preferred that to the teen years: my home was under my control, I didn't have someone/s violating every possible aspect of my life and personal space in every conceivable way.

Just getting that off my chest

'But, are you kidding? Trying to sleep at 2, 3, 4am waiting for teen to get in, up at 7am to get the other ones off to school/go to work. In the end I made a conscious decision to just go to sleep, reasoning that if something happened I'd at least have the benefit of having had some sleep. I was out of my mind with lack of sleep and could even look in the face the prospect that dd1 might die and I'd be asleep when she did. '

That is much more about you and your own stress and fears, rather than the needs of a small child being inflicted on you.
All those sleepless nights waiting? How many times out of the hundreds did something bad happen? I sleep with my mobile in earshot, in case I'm needed. It has happened a few times out of the many, and nothing dreadful.
Do your children tell you when they'll be back, stick to the times, tell you if they've changed and plan on sleeping over? if not, why not?
You made a conscious decision just to go to sleep, which was a very sensible choice that is not open to parents of much younger children who wake up and Neeeed Right Now!
I still agree with all those saying the demands are hard in parenting, whatever the age of your children, and equal but very different. It depends what your strengths are as a parent as to which bit you find the most stressful, and what sort of child you have.

OK that's teens but presumably that isn't the case from say, 5 to 12? Or is it - am I in for a horrible shcok? Please explain how parenting primary school children is harder than parenting non-vocal, non-sleeping children? Because the way things are at the moment I am fairly sure I am not going to be able to cope if this only gets harder

And are you seriously telling me you have night after night of waiting for your teen to return home? Because I can function perfectly well on oneor 2 nights broken sleep. But at the moment I can't remember the last reasonable night's sleep I got - it certainly wasn't in the last month

Exactly SPB.

oh Goblin, if only you had been around when I had my teens, it would have been a piece of cake! You should set up a support service. And to think, I got it all wrong and was a crappola parent. Sheesh!

Please can someoen explain how, in general parenting an 8yo is harder than parenting a 2yo?

Because so far, DS at 4 is much easier than DD at coming up 2, guessing a reverse is about to happen.

I just don't understand why you are comparing choosing to stay awake until the early hours of the morning because your teenagers are out and about to the relentless care that a by or young child demands?
Where a xhild can't do most things for themselves and needs adult care to stay alive and be safe?
And saying that it's harder, although you later chose to sleep instead. What were you so terrified of that stopped you sleeping? Didn't you trust them? How did they cope with that level of intense care?
What happened when they went to university?

I liked being able to stand up vertically again, instead of the hunched shuffle. I enjoyed them being out of eyesight without the panic setting in the second I couldn't see them. I enjoyed being able to sit and eat an entire meal, or a hot cup of coffee right to the end. Or have a focused conversation without constant asides and stage directions and poor eye contact with the person I was speaking to.

I stalk them at uni Goblin. am I getting that wrong too? Please tell me, I need your expert tuition.

I don't recall ds1 being harder to parent at those ages, SPB, than when he was a toddler.(Actually he didn't sleep through the night properly until he was 6, but I think that's a rarity, so don't panic).

Like I said before, at least I could sleep, and leave him to get dressed/have a bath/make some toast/get his own drink etc etc . Not at 5, for the toast making, I hasten to add.

Admittedly ds1 is only 15, so I don't have the experience of him staying out till stupid hours of the morning, but so far I've found the teenage years easier than the early years.

In what?
In accepting the fact that teenagers don't need you to lie awake at night in a panic for hours and hours and hours? Whilst they have fun and learn how to become young adults? Then come home and find you snappy and grumpy and sleep-deprived and neurotic because you choose to let your fears control you?

15!! So I have probably a decade before it gets harder again?

Can someone who has said to a parent of toddlers "It only gets harder from now" please explain that then?

Because I can cope with easdier then harder

also think i can cope with emotionally hard if i can sleep/eat/shower/clean house without too much struggle

Mine are 16 and 20 SPB.
It got hard differently.

Do tell me more Goblin - you know you want to. Your text book wisdom is a revelation full of shit.

Your family may have to put up with your nerves and your blinkers, but I really don't.

To be fair, there's nowhere ds1 can go to around here until the early hours of the morning anyway. And if there were, it would only be at weekends, because there's no way he'd be allowed out till then on school nights, so at least I'd have 5 nights' sleep a week. After school age he's an adult and I would expect him to be adult enough to cope with things.

Perhaps I've had it easy though- he is generally a well-behaved, respectful boy. Many problems at school up until this last year which had us tearing our hair out with anxiety, but otherwise no major issues. Obviously, though, we have yet to experience the later teenage years so cannot claim to be an authority on those.

Any problems with younger DCs are much simpler because at least you know where they are and who they are with.

OK, SPB mine are 6 and 8, one with mild ASD and one who has bratty tendencies like so many 8 yr olds seem to nowadays. And yes of course it's easier in many ways than the toddler years, because you can slack off to some extent, they will play with toys and imaginative games, they will read, or play computer games and watch telly. There's not the relentlessness of the toddler years.

It's more emotionally tricky in some ways though, because a toddler is a pretty simple beast, and you know what you have to do, just obey rules A B and C, and apply huge amounts of patience and it will be OK.

With pre-teens they have turned into unique human beings and there is no single right answer. And they have problems in the outside world with school and friends that Mummy can't always make all better. So it's emotionally difficult.

Agree with the poster who says small children/babies are physically demanding but preteen/teenagers are emotionally demanding.

I have 2 Dc's, my DD (11) is going through puberty, and all the emotional rollercoaster that goes with it, some days it's emotionally draining , and yes I know we're only just starting on that road.

My Ds (7) was hard work as a baby, always ill, colic, ezcema , didn't sleep well until 18 months etc. That was more physically demanding, yes it was emotional but it didn't involve the baby answering back, attitudes and all things hormonal like puberty does.

I was speaking to my Mum yesterday saying that we've had a tough week with DD's behaviour . My Mum says that you just have to 'ride on through it' that whatever you do you can't really win, just focus on the really important things, like keeping them safe and giving good advice, and hopefully at the end of it you'll get that beautiful, lovely wonderful child/adult back that you gave birth to.

I think it's almost pointless comparing the two - wherever you are on the parenting spectrum. Different kids are so different at different ages that it's simply not comparable.

If DS had been an only child I would have thought babies and toddlers were hell on earth. I wouldn't have wished that soul-destroying time on anyone. Then followed my 2 DD's and although they are still toddlers they have totally re-written my early-years parenting experience - and they're twins, so if I go by all advice handed my way I should be having a hellish time. I have LOVED every minute of their babyhood and toddler time (so far). However, I know these things change. Nothing else matters except doing best by your child at whatever stage they are at and seeking advice when needed from trusted sources.

Forgive me if I'm speaking bullshit here but I imagine parenting toddlers and parenting teens to be two different types of difficulty.
Just like you get different types of pain.
The toddler years are (usually) brief. So the difficulty is equal to that of the pain of stubbing your toe for example. Bloody painful, makes you swear alot and your eyes water. You hobble around for a bit but then it's over.

Teens are like one of those headaches that come on slowly. At first it's just a niggly pain on your forehead. Before long it is an all out migraine that lasts for several hours and the only cure is to lock yourself away in a dark room and sleep it off.

Both pains are bad in their own way. Neither are comparable.

You're right TSC. I'm 27 and briefly lived with my parents again whilst we saved for deposit on a house. A couple of times I went out with friends I would come home in the early hours to find my mum dozing on the sofa trying to watch a Sharpe DVD. Old habits die hard!