to think that people who have young children aren't in a position to know whether it is harder not to have older children or teenagers?

[Anice]

but on the other hand people who have older children have been in both situations and can compare?

laughs hollowly and nods agreement

Teens don't need the hands on care that small children require.
I am not a great hands on parent tbh, and so teens suit me fine. They don't need any help with toileting/washing/cutting up food/entertaining/getting off to sleep/crossing the road/making a snack/drink. They realise you are human after all and can't stretch yourself into 5 people all at the same time.

OTOH, small children are always within your sight, don't have enough vocabulary to have a coherent argument with you, tend not to see your faults as much as teens, love being with you and aren't embarrassed by you.

There's loads more, but I don't feel my teen is hard work at all.

TSC I have always been more of a 'cat' person.
That's a good analogy though.

My children are late teens/early twenties now.

What really shocked me was when, literally overnight, I realised that my child who prior to that had loved me more than anything in her life not only found me wanting but seemed to dislike me.

That's what hurt so much. I coped with the staying out later than she should have and the mess and so on, but that feeling of being disliked was really, really awful.

But she's older now and is absolutely great. I still look at her with narrowed eyes though

I posted the dog / cat thing

feel gloriously self-satisfied that someone rememnbers it for some reason

Remembering what I was like as a teenager, I am reserving judgement! I know that my parents tried v hard to let me have freedom and independence, whilst worrying themselves sick about me.

At least with small children you have quite a lot of control over what happens (and you can stick them under your arm and carry them off if things get too heated).

I like TSC's cat/dog analogy too...

The Dog and Cat story ( I didn't write it - don't know who did)

Dog And Cat

I just realized that while children are dogs loyal and affectionate teenagers are cats. It's so easy to be a dog owner. You feed it, train it, boss it around. It puts its head on your knee and gazes at you as if you were a Rembrandt painting. It bounds indoors with enthusiasm when you call it.

Then around age 13, your adoring little puppy turns into a big old cat. When you tell it to come inside, it looks amazed, as if wondering who died and made you emperor. Instead of dogging your doorsteps, it disappears. You won't see it again until it gets hungry -- then it pauses on its sprint through the kitchen long enough to turn its nose up at whatever you're serving. When you reach out to ruffle its head, in that old affectionate gesture, it twists away from you, then gives you a blank stare, as if trying to remember where it has seen you before.

You, not realizing that the dog is now a cat, think something must be desperately wrong with it. It seems so antisocial, so distant, sort of depressed. It won't go on family outings.

Since you're the one who raised it, taught it to fetch and stay and sit on command, you assume that you did something wrong. Flooded with guilt and fear, you redouble your efforts to make your pet behave.

Only now you're dealing with a cat, so everything that worked before now produces the opposite of the desired result. Call it, and it runs away. Tell it to sit, and it jumps on the counter. The more you go toward it, wringing your hands, the more it moves away.

Instead of continuing to act like a dog owner, you can learn to behave like a cat owner. Put a dish of food near the door, and let it come to you. But remember that a cat needs your help and your affection too. Sit still, and it will come, seeking that warm, comforting lap it has not entirely forgotten. Be there to open the door for it.

One day your grown-up child will walk into the kitchen, give you a big kiss and say, "You've been on your feet all day. Let me get those dishes for you."

Then you'll realize your cat is a dog again.

Whatever age your dc are enjoy it because before you know it they will be up and away from home. My ds was a terror under 5 and from then on turned into a fantastic young man.

'My mother stood meekly by whilst I told her that all her child-raising ideas were complete rubbish as I slaved over the Annabel Karmel book making individual butternut squash purees.'

Oh gramercy, total flashback for me with that sentence.
She waited until I was sane again before having a laugh at my expense.

thanks for that activate.. i read it to dh getting all sentimental when he reminded me that in our house the cats sleep outside.. wonder if we can apply this same rule when ours hit teen years??

activate - I just love that! It actually gave me goosebumps because it is just so true and perfectly sums up my transition into parenting teenagers. It's a bewildering time!

I think I will print that and read it now and then to remind myself that I'm not the only one who feels like a failure with teenagers.

I was going to say exactly that Herbie. Whilst at 38, I remember my teenage years vividly (and I was a bugger), I don't think that has helped me parent my 15 yo old daughter. In fact it has made me more suspicious of what she gets up to so I feel I always have to be on my toes with her! Teenagers are mentally exhausting and teenagerhood seems to last longer than toddlerhood like from the ages of 10 - 22 at least (in my case ) so IMO it is harder

I also have a 7 mo old and he is so easy (apart from the 1st 3 months of zombielike existence through lack of sleep). My 2 in between are aged 7 and 10 and are sort of middle of the road in terms of hard work at the moment but at least I am now fully prepared for them becoming teenagers after my experience with the 1st one.

Oh and when DC1 was small I often used to imagine what she'd be like as a teenager and how well we'd get on and she'd tell me everything because I'd be such a cool mum..... unfortunately she is embarassed to be seen with me in public and the most common sentence that comes out of her mouth is 'shuddup mum, you don't know anything' and that according to other parents of teenagers is pretty mild!

I remember being a teenager. Especially the years between 16 and 20. Fortunately neither of mine have followed in my footsteps in any way whatsoever.
I'm a parent of one teen and one young adult and I'm a primary teacher.
I found babies and small children and babies a lot more exhausting and scary than teens. But it's just my relationship with my two children. I wouldn't begin to predict or assume about anyone else's children.
I only offer advice if it is wanted, and I shut up the second it isn't.

So far my personal experience of being a pre-teen is not helping me one bit with my 12 YO DS. He is an alien creature to me. Luckily we still get on very well (he's still mainly a little boy still), but I'm nervous about how we'll get through the teen years. My DH says he can't remember being a teenager so he's not much help!

presumably when I have older children I will be sleeping more than 6 (broken) hours a night (that's every week night and weekends I usually get another hour or so). I will be able to make dinner without someone howling in my ear?
And everyone is talking about teengaers - what about primary schoolers?

Just because you have been a teenager is absolutely no guide to how you should/might parent a teenager. And in the main, that's because teenagers are like toddlers. They are totally self-absorbed. Which means you will have no real perspective on what it was like for your parents and how they felt about you, or what it was like to parent you.

When your children are babies, or toddlers, you are in charge all the time. And (unless you are a really weak parent), you are totally in control of what they are doing, and you 'dictate' what they do, where they go, what happens during their day, etc, etc.

But when they are teenagers, one of the absolutely key things is that they are (and have to be) learning how to leave you. They are learning how to become independent adults. And that means finding their own way to do things. Inevitably this means they will do/want to do things differently.

And you have to let them.

The most worrying thing as a parent is that you have to relinquish the kind of control that you are used to.

The fears that I had when my children were babies were often frightening. The fears that I have now can be overwhelming, because there is even less I can do to influence or control things. The consequences of their actions/behaviours are potentially so drastic. I have to hope that they will be sensible in the face of the many and various temptations that are placed in their way - drugs, alcohol, sex, etc etc.

I will be able to make dinner without someone howling in my ear?

Ha Ha - probably won't happen until they leave home!

I have both - a few of each

Teens ARE harder

Fact!

'presumably when I have older children I will be sleeping more than 6 (broken) hours a night (that's every week night and weekends I usually get another hour or so). I will be able to make dinner without someone howling in my ear?'

I get to sleep in on holidays and Sunday, or I can get up earlyish and enjoy the tranquil peace and quiet until around 11am. There is no reason why most teenagers can't make dinner while you do something else.

I will be able to make dinner without someone howling in my ear?

When they're older they start making their own food, while you're cooking the sodding dinner and you turn into your own Mother yelling at them "why can't you just wait 20 mins".

BIWI - summed up what I meant to say succintly. The loss of control over the teenage DCs lives is the most scary thing and that's why it's harder than any other stage IMO.