to think allowing grandparents to do unpaid childcare is just asking for family problems?

[deaconblue]

My friend's mum has been looking after her two dc's for 2-3 days a week for 7 years now (unpaid). She's now trying for another baby which would add a further 4 years to her mother's unpaid childcare duties. They keep falling out over parenting styles and their relationship is nothing like as good as it was pre-children.
It seems to me that it must be almost impossible to keep all parties happy with such a long term arrangement.

And we don't arrange our childcare the way we do just because it's "convenient" either. We do it because it works really well for all of us, especially DS who gets to spend lots of time with his young, active GPs and also has the benefit of parents who can afford to put a roof over his head and pay the bills.

I do think some people take their parents for granted with this one. And I know my parents agree. The comments they make about their friends who are expected to rearrange their lives at the drop of hat to look after gcs!

I am jealous, of course, because both sets of gps live over 2 hours away.

So far (dd5) we have had my parents stay over once while we went to a gig in London, and a couple of times they've come for the weekend and taken dd out for the day while we did something really exciting like trawl flooring shops.

Other gps have looked after dd for the day once while we got some decorating done. And that is honestly it. We didn't pay them!

But I know my mum and dad are really enjoying their recent retirement and have busy lives that they have created from nothing having just moved to a totally new area.

I like to think that if my mum lived locally I would still pay childcare routinely to cover my part-time work, but be able to call on her very occasionally for emergencies.

My parents' lives certainly don't revolve around mine! I - and they - would resent that suggestion.

I'm a SAHM of 4 and they have never been looked after by GPs not through choice one set dead, other set well least said about that the better. Anyway I go to a few toddler groups and half the people there are GPs some lively ones too. Some of the GPs are well into their 60s if not 70s and look quite exhausted running around after toddlers. One wee woman in particular can hardly walk and pushes a double buggy.

A lot of my friends rely on GPs and the thing that gets me is when theyoan about GPs having a holiday once or twice a year as it means they have to use up holiday or try and find alternative childcare. Of if granny has an appointment. One also moans about having to pick up and drop off her aunt who provides her with a days free childcare as the aunt can't drive. All the tome they are telling me how lucky I am that I don't have these problems! Another friends mum parks the DC in front of the TV feeds them sugar constantly and smokes in front of them. Friend says what can she do she needs free childcare.

Personally i agree with the OP and believe it can ruin family relationships, I think adhoc is fine but relying on GPs Ailey can be dangerous.

I am so lucky to have my mum. She asked if she could have DD when I went back to work, 2 days a week. We had a full and frank conversation and she agreed hand on heart to let me know if it was too much for her. And we both agreed that it would only be a 1 year commitment, as after that, DD would be almost 3 (I went back to work late) and could go to playgroup, or I may be lucky enough to be expecting again and be starting maternity leave after a year back at work.
We have had this arrangement for 8 months so far, and every day my mum tells me how much she enjoys having DD, and on my days off, is eager for us both to come and have a cup of tea with her and my dad, as she misses DD.
This may sound terribly cloying to some of you but I love that we are all so close, and mum is teaching DD many lovely things that I remember being taught myself as a child, and it is lovely to see. We have honestly never had a problem.
DD is 22 months and today my mum said 'She's just no problem and such a joy to have around'

NB I only work 2 days a week, and mum has her both days, 8.30am to 5.45pm

Stonecold - you talk about the culture difference, but actually the thing that strikes me is that very few people in their 40s are going to be around during the day to provide childcare anyway. Most people this age are at the height of their own working life. And actually in future, people are likely to be working till 66 or later. I think its very unfair to then expect a gp to spend their hard earned retirement starting another job!

Oh, and when the topic of payment came up, mum said 'Just invite us round and cook us a roast dinner every so often'

I also see plenty of knackered GPs at playgroups as most people here use GPs as free childcare (if they are paid, it's pittance, £15 for an 8 hour day). I'd never ask my mother/MIL as I find it tiring myself and they've had their time raising small children.
It was my choice to have kids, the least I can do is look after them til they're at least 2.5 years old. Work will be there for the next 40 bloody years! School runs and babysitting is more reasonable but 2+ days of FT childcare a week takes the piss and must definitely cause some tension as it's hard work, no matter how much you love the little buggers!

I don't see my grandsons as an inconvenience at all

I'm not a doddery old woman yetthough

Some people don't have the choice to stay at home though Chumpalina

See, Daydream, that doesn't sound cloying to me, it sounds like the relationship that I have with my parents who are besotted with DS and say that they will miss him terribly when he starts doing more time at nursery next year.

To counter the time that they look after DS, we VERY rarely ask them to babysit, probably about once every three months, and then usually because they have practically forced us to go for a night out.

Grandparents have been looking after their gc for decades. It's not a new thing is it?

I was looked after by my grandparents (in the 60s) they lived next door - people lived closer to family in those days and it was the norm to have extended family looking after the children.

Of course it depends on the family dynamic whether it's successful or not. My own mum looked after my children - my eldest full-time initially then part-time and took on the other 2 as they came along. You could pay them in those days though qithout incurring the wrath of Ofsted or whoever.

I don't remember us ever falling out about parenting and even now as young people in their teens and twenties they still have a fantastic relationship with their gps. The middle one rolled home from a year abroad and the first thing he asked was when he could go to nan's for tea. And my mum was as keen to have him as she ever was.

It depends how honest your relationship is with them.

My mum was my childminder for a year with DS1. Then I fell pregnant with DS2 and she felt able to tell me she wouldnt cope with 2 for 2 whole days a week, so they went to nursery 1 day and her the 2nd. Then she asked for only 1 of them, so the younger did 2 days at nursery. After 3 years she asked for me to use a nursery full time, as she felt better able to help me on my days off than as my childminder. I was a single parent and able to claim WTC at this point.

We have a very open and honest relationship which helped. I couldnt use a friend or family that I felt couldnt be honest with me if it got too much etc.

My grandparents looked after all 15 of their grandchildren while the parents were in work - this spanned 4 decades and they were in their mid 70's when the youngest grandchild (my brother) was looked after. They never got paid for any of it, never asked for payment and never would ask. Families look after each other.

When my grandparents got too old to look after themselves properly, their children looked after them. Again, for no payment.

When I go back to work my MIL and my sister will be looking after my ds. Both volunteered and neither want/expect payment but of course I will pay for any food/activities/travel expenses my ds needs. I find it very odd that some grandparents/relatives would expect to be paid. I suppose I'm lucky that I have family asking to look after ds (even my brother and my BIL have said that they will take him every now and then because they want to spend time with him).

I think it is wise to keep checking the arrangement is still working for gps. A friend looks after GC and is quite happy to. She said at the beginning she didn't want paid for it. But now she is struggling financially because of the extra cost of looking after them . She is on a small pension and is struggling to pay for meals, swimming entry, etc from her pension.

Her friends keep telling her to say to her DIL that she does need some money so that she is not out of pocket. But she is too embarassedto bring it up with her.

It's a shame that those of you who don't have grandparents helping with childcare have to look so negatively on those who do.

There is (as illustrated by theSecondComing) also the issue of age. My mum was in her 50s when she was looking after my children - doing it in your late 60s is a different ball game altogether.

Those of you who say you couldn't afford children if you weren't using gp's as free childcare, and that you need it to keep a roof over your head- what would you do if the gps become ill or frail or something happens to prevent them doing this? You see, thats where it all becomes a blurred area, because if the gps know the parents are totally relying on them, it then becomes almost impossible to say no. Hence the worn out gps people have referred to, struggling on because they know the parents are relying on them. That's a huge burden to put on gp's. And I still don't know what these parents would do if the gps got ill or just could not do it anymore.

As for those parents where its not just driven by financial need- well, you can still have a close and loving relationship without using gps like this. It just seems the height of selfishness , if you can afford childcare, to let the gps do it for free and keep all your earnings.

lynehamrose ...I was happy to look after my grandchildren why is that a problem?

I didn't see it as a burden or I wouldn't have offered in the first place ..my grandchildren will never be a burden to me

I have an elderly mother who I also help out regularly ..shes not a burden either its called being a family in my book

Neither set of grandparents have offered to look after the dds on a formal/ regular basis. They both see lots of their grandaughters and look after them occasionally when I am really stuck or about once a year so that dh and I can go away.

Both sets are close to their granddaughters but they very much have their own lives. They are having wonderful retirements, travelling, pursuing hobbies, seeing friends, going on day trips. Their grandchildren are part of that but not the entirety. I respect that and I'm happy that they are enjoying a well-deserved retirement.

Paying for childcare is something to factor in to planning a family. It's totally unfair to expect grandparents (who don't want to) to look after dcs because you can't afford paid childcare.

When the children are off nursery or school sick you still need someone to look after them.

You can't take time off work for every illness, especially with very young children as they can catch everything going. Our nursery has a 48hr quarantine policy for sickness / temperatures, mum gets roped in quite a lot over the winter months. I could not manage without her.

My parents look after my DD 1 / 2 days a week whilst I work part time. We have had this arrangement for 7 years now, and as my youngest is starting school, it is coming to an end and my mother is really upset about it.

My children went to grandparents as well as nursery / childminders and it has worked brilliantly for us. It has given the children an exceptionally close relationship with their grandparents - my parents are a part of their lives, they know their friends, listen to their worries, share their excitement when they get a certificate from school or whatever - they have that because they are there, in my children's lives. Furthermore, because my children spend time with my parents alone, they have developed interests together that they enjoy doing, that I am not a part of. For example, my youngest loves gardening with my father and he has been teaching her about different plants and animals etc in the garden. When he looks after her, they go off and tend the plants in the greenhouse etc. They would not have this relationship if they only visited each other as part of a big family visit once a week. They have developed their own relationships / interests with my grandparents that is entirely independent of my relationship with them. In contrast my children's other grandparents (and their maternal great grandparents) are just visitors in my children's lives and whilst my children love them, the relationship is not the same as they just don't have that intimacy.

We have never had rows / power struggles. I have told my mum the rules that are important to me, and the ones I would like her to maintain. She respects that. In other respects, she parents differently to me and I respect that too.

However, for us it is more than just 'free childcare' as we are indeed very close. We live close geographically, but also my mother was there at the birth of both of my children, we holiday with my parents every year, have meals out together, quite often my parents will pop over of a sunday evening and we'll go for a walk / drink together. That sort of thing. That said, before children we did use to socialise with my parents too. (We do have lots of other friends, before I make myself sound really sad!). But actually, my parents have crossed the boundaries into just people I enjoy spending time with now and I think that is reflected in the way my parents just enjoy spending time with my children and sharing in their lives.

And yes, I do hope sincerely one day that I too will have the opportunity to look after my grandchildren in the same way. I find it interesting that my Grandparents looked after my cousins whilst my aunt worked, but she never looked after me, as my mum was a SAHM. My grandmother has this same intimate relationship with my cousins that she never developed with me. She is a part of my cousins' lives, she knows their friends - they stop and chat to her in Tescos still! Whereas she wouldn't know the names of my childhood friends. I love my grandparents dearly, but she was only ever a visitor on my life, and I have never had that intimate relationship that I see in my grandparents / cousins and parents / children.

Sorry, this is such a long thread, but I do believe that when a grandparent looks after a child it does create a very different dynamic in the relationship, one that can be impossible to describe - but in my experience, it is very real!