to think allowing grandparents to do unpaid childcare is just asking for family problems?

[deaconblue]

My friend's mum has been looking after her two dc's for 2-3 days a week for 7 years now (unpaid). She's now trying for another baby which would add a further 4 years to her mother's unpaid childcare duties. They keep falling out over parenting styles and their relationship is nothing like as good as it was pre-children.
It seems to me that it must be almost impossible to keep all parties happy with such a long term arrangement.

A set of grandparents on our street look after 2 children and have done since the mother went back to work.

I bumped into her taking the elder one to swimming lessons and she told me she was completely knackered. She looks after them both full time. I asked if she had told her daughter how she felt and she said she told her all the time and the daughter would say 'I'm arranging something else' and never do it.

Now that is taking the piss.

My 'sharing family life' comment was trying to make the point that there can be a balance - both granparents and grandchildren can gain a great deal from the help loving grandparents provide in the form of childcare, which usually suggests they are embroidered into their family lives in a range of ways.

In terms of full time childcare, I think that depends on individual circumstances, I certainly wouldn't want to say it was 'wrong' in every case.

I think a lot of these posts show that its very difficult to get it 'right' for everyone involved though.

at the end of the day, it's an imbalance because the parents are getting a huge advantage by it, and it's difficult to see what the grandparents are gaining, that they couldn't gain through a normal loving relationship without the unpaid childcare aspect. In other words, if the grandparents live near enough, you can meet up, go for lunch, have days out, and yes, they may do occasional babysitting - and all those things will give them all the benefits of a close and loving relationship without the huge restriction of being tied to looking after them on certain days, doing school runs etc

TBH I think parents use the 'loving relationship' thing as a justification for expoiting the grandparents - " oh they've got such a great bond, it's because granny's looked after him since I went back to work". Are people suggesting the grandparents wouldn't have a bond if they didn't happen to work? I think people should be more honest - they use the grandparents because it means they get to keep their hard earned cash themselves. OK, they might not be the sole reason, but I reckon its up there with any other reasons. I would feel just awful doing that. I think looking after young children is hard work, it's a job, unpaid if you're the parent, because youve made the decision to enter the parenting world, but anyone else taking it on should be rewarded fairly

My mum has had our DDs for one day a week for every school week - apart from the times when they take holidays. My parents are both semi-retired and travel in their camper for up to 5 months of the year. During these times - which tend to me in school times as those are the quieter times for camping - we have to use DP's annual leave to cover this day each week. Actually, I think it works as it enables him to spend time with them too!

When we had DD1, we arranged childcare for 5 days each week and my mum asked to have her once a week (she was already looking after my DSis's children one day a week too at that time).

Now that DD1 is starting school in September it will no longer be easy for my mum to have the girls each week as she lives in a different town from where DD1 will be going to school, so we will use a childminder 5 days a week.

I am hoping that my DPs will fancy having the girls during the school holidays or might fancy doing the school pick-up once a week. Not because we can't afford the child care but because my parents like the close relationships they have with their DGCs.

When I was born, all bar one of my GPs was already dead and the remaining one was not interested in us as children - I think this is why my parents try hard to enjoy their DGCs - but balance it with their own retirement too.

They have always refused any payment, putting cash into the DDs' savings accounts and not banking any cheques we give them!

I wonder how many of us will be saying in a few years 'my DD/DS expects me to look after my grandchildren' - and would we do it, would we give up our careers? I personally think it is taking a huge advantage if GPs look after their grandchildren - can lead to all sorts of problems on both sides - I too have seen many grandparents absolutely exhausted by providing childcare but not feeling they can be honest with their grown up children - that is really sad.

(and I am someone that was looked after my GPs - my mother has only just realised that she sort of assumed that they wanted to do it, but now she's a DGM herself she sees things differently ).

My mum looks after my and my sisters kids 3 days a week. We both worry it is too much, but she insists that she loves it and that's what she wants to do in retirement.

We have both insisted that if it gets too much then she tells us and we will make other arrangement.

It's not just a money saving idea for the parents though. From the child's point of view, being looked after by a grandparent will be infinitely preferable to nursery, and in most cases better than a childminder too. (assuming good relationship etc etc). My parents and PIL each do 1 day a week looking after DD and she's in nursery 1.5 days - it meant I didn't have to leave a 1 year old in nursery for a very long day several days a week, a situation which I woudln't have been happy with and neither would either set of grandparents. Not that they would have commented to me, but they understand that family care has huge benefits to the child compared to paid-for care. I don't think I'm taking advantage - parents offered to do this, I didn't ask, and we talk frequently and I have always said that if they feel it's getting too much I will look at other options.

You're not wrong OP. It can get very messy I wouldn't advise anyone have this set up, certainly not as a longterm solution.You will inevitably fall out and if/when you do, it can be very difficult to to get past that.

My mum looked after my DD for me from the age of 8 months when I went back to work part time. This suited us both in the beginning- Despite having PND entwined with major anxiety issues I trusted my mum to take care of the baby. It worked out great for a while, no fall outs, did things way I preferred from what I could see. Then I asked my mum if she'd start taking DD to baby and toddler groups (they all seemed to run during the hours I worked so I couldn't go to them) so she could mix with other children. "Yes, yes ofcourse" was always the response but she never did. She never took her to park even, not unless my sister came round with her DC and got my DNephew to beg granny to bring DD to the park with them. DD just used to sit and watch telly alot according to my sister, or was strapped into her buggy for hours and hours while mum trundled her round town.

My mum and I ended up having a major arguement one day when I mentioned my aunt wanted to take DD out for a morning to a nearby farm and my mum got the arse and basically said my aunt could "do one" if she thought she was going to take "my DGD away from me" The week after I went to view a nursery, fell in love with it and enrolled DD to start asap. And she's never been happier.

Me and my mum made up within a day or so, both said sorry to each other but I don't think I'll ever feel the same way about her again as I saw a side to her I didn't like. If either of my DC ask me to act as childcare for their DC when they have them I'll say no. I'll babysit for them if they want a night out or a weekend away or an afternoon off etc but not as a subsitute for nursery/CM. No way.

God, that was long

There's no way we could have had kids if my parents hadn't wanted/ been able to look after them for free. We could never have afforded the childcare and I personally wouldn't want to leave my kids at a nursery all day, every day where they don't get the 1:1 attention of someone who loves them. DS does do one day a week at nursery though, I think it's prob good for him, but I wouldn't want him to be there every day.

My parents love looking after DS and have said they want to look after the next DC, due in September. They do two days a week, DH does two days a week and I do the weekends so everyone gets time off, except me!

I think the OP is being U to generalise; I suppose I'm lucky that my immediate family all have similar ideas about how to look after small children.

This said, I would NEVER let the MiL look after my children, unattended, for a whole day.

I looked after both my grandsons while my daughter worked weekends ..but she never gave me a list of rules on how to look after them

She trusted me and we never fell out ..I loved looking after them

YABU. Just because it causes problems in some families, doesn't mean it causes problems in all families. Which would suggest that it's not the childcare that's the problem, its the people involved.

My Mum picks my dc up from school one day a week, and has spend the same day with them every week since they were born. It works perfectly. We still have our family visits at weekends, but my Mum likes being able to see them regularly and have them to herself, and I appreciate that afternoon to do a bit of shopping or whatever. The only time there has ever been a problem was when she felt the need to buy them a dougnut as and after school treat and then give them an indulgent pudding after dinner. I told her I had a problem with it, she stopped doing it.

She respects that I am the parent and she has to go by my rules, and I respect that she as the GP gets to treat them.

Obviously its great if grandparents can look after their dgc sometimes.

But I really cannot imagine there's a grandparent in the land who wants to do full time or nearly full time childcare. Unpaid or not.

I certainly wouldn't want to. No way. Sorry.

And Ragwort, I'll look after my GC when I retire if, like my parents, I'm lucky and rich enough to be able to take early retirement with a whacking great big, public sector pension, long before I'm too infirm to be physically and mentally active.

Since I'm working my arse off in the same job that they did (teaching), making pension contributions that are well over the odds in order to support their generation of teachers and paying off a student loan that they never had to worry about, I don't feel guilty in the slightest that they are helping me out with childcare!

IME yabu.

My mum has helped with the dc's (4 & 2) for over 4 years, this week she has the joy of looking after ds as he's off sick. My stepmum often has them for a couple of hours one afternoon a week. We muddle along fairly well. Mum is better than my stepmum though, my stepmum doesn't have kids so I do tend to panic when she has them. Mum sticks by my rules though, and if she doesn't agree she usually talks me round . They're both pretty sensible.

The good thing is that neither my mum or stepmum eat junk food so there isn't a snowballs chance in hell they will give the kids sweets when they don't even eat them .

My parents love DD, as does my MIL, but I would neither ask nor want them to look after her on a formal/regular basis. It blurs the boundaries I think, and shift the 'power balance'.

my parents moved near me from their home town (150 miles away) where they had lived for 30 years. my kids were 2 and 3 at the time. before they moved we had a discusiion that they would help out, but not be tied to looking after kids on regular basis. 3 years on, its fine. they pick the kids up from school once a week, even though we pay for after school club, as its not always the same day. the kids get to see grandparents regularly, and they do help us out if we are stuck.(babysitting) just tonight they have been round after tea and we all took the kids to the park. they are not up to looking after 2 very lively boys in the holidays, so i work term time only. i love seeing more of them, but respect they have their own lives to lead. i wouldnt have felt comfortable giving them responsibility of looking after them for me. i chose to have kids, and although financailly the before/after school care bill is hard, its only for a few years. aslo, what happens if a grandparent is taken ill? no childcare.
my BIL uses grandparents to look after his 2 one day a week, but it involves the grandparents driving 50 mile round trip to do it, they leave home at 6 to be there at 7, so parents go to work. i just think of the bad snow we had last year, and how if that happens again, GP wont be able to get there.
each to ther own i guess, but i do think unpaid is bad.

We have never had a power struggle but then we all help each other out in my family

Indeed; not sure about the "power balance" thing NinkyNonker? My parents and I are all just adults, no power weilding here! We tend to just compromise

We help each other out in ours too, but I personally wouldn't want my parents/MIL formally taking care of DD. They have their own lives, as do we. Each to their own.

Why is there this subtext that somehow families are being 'unsupportive' or not close and loving if the grandparents aren't dishing out free childcare? Its very odd. I see it the other way round- if there is mutual love and respect, you have a close relationship and do things together because you CHOOSE freely, not because you need to conveniently drop the kids at 7 am to go and earn a buck

When I had DS1 (14 years ago), my parents looked after him while I worked. They were younger and fitter then and they were honestly happy to do it. If they hadn't, then I'd have been unable to work. I trusted my mum to look after him and didn't tell her what to do. Our ideas are much the same, but at that point she knew far more about babies than I did! She would have been offended to be paid for helping me. I come from a family where we all help each other out when necessary. I have helped my parents when they needed it, so it's not a one way street.

I think part of the problem is that both parents often need to work just to pay the bills. Cost of childcare is often prohibitive, so if the GP's don't step in, the family are up shit creek financially. Not everyone is working just to pay for luxuries, so are not taking advantage of GP's in the sense of getting free childcare and spending all their wages on holidays.

I have 4 children now and I know that if I had to go back to work, they would willingly step in again. However, they are older now and I'd be reluctant to have them do this. Four DC are very tiring. But it does make me happy to know that they would, if I needed it.

I know of GP's who've had the kids living with them mon-fri and only go 'home' at weekends. This has gone on for about 18 years. The GP's are knackered and have effectively become parents again, without anyone asking them if that's what they want. They are naturally very close to the kids, but it's selfish to have children and assume one's parents will be happy to raise them for you.

I'm certainly not saying that GPs who don't provide childcare are unsupportive, just didn't get the idea of the power balance that NinkyNonker referred to.

Well my daughter did need to go and earn a buck to keep a roof over her and my grandchildrens heads ...I didn't have a problem providing child care so why assume every grandparent feels put upon

Feralgirl- neither do I actually, its not about a power balance, its just about respecting each other and not allowing another adult to revolve their life around yours.

My parents looked after DS unpaid all through primary school. It's quite a strong part of our culture so they don't see it as much of an inconvenience as many Western families might, it's an unwritten rule that families support each other. It's allowed me to return to study, develop relationships when I became a single parent and even travelling abroad sometimes so I've been able to access many opportunities that some parents would have to miss out on, which has benefited DS too as he understands that I have a role beyond being a mother.

DS has his own room at their house and has always felt comfortable staying over there, he has a really strong relationship with them and his aunt (who still lived with my parents as well). I was quite fortunate in many ways as I was only 19 when I had DS and my parents were only in their 40s, so they had plenty of energy for him.