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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find it quite refreshing when someone is politically incorrect?

170 replies

pollypopsocks · 06/05/2011 21:04

I do find it refreshing, I don't mean when they are a complete arsehole, just when they don't tread on eggshells, aibu?

OP posts:
Gooseberrybushes · 08/05/2011 00:55

I think if you look at a couple of posts earlier, it's also easy to offend by being too pc. One poster talked about being patronised. It's not necessarily about being polite. By being "pc" one can just as easily be addressing people as a "type". Eg you are from India therefore you come from a poor background therefore you must be more intelligent or must need to be treated more gently or you are Muslim and therefore easily offended etc etc. It is to do with a combination of sensitivity and common sense.

I also think there is a little too much stereotyping of people who resent "pc" ness. I don't think it should be forgotten that there are people who have a certain background who strain against that and have a good will but are uncertain in how to deal with issues which they have no familiarity with at all.

For example there will be many adults and especially older people whose children have grown up with multiculturalism and multisexualism (?) and who know, intellectually, the "correct" approach but for whom it doesn't come naturally. Hence the awkward family members being overfriendly with gay boyfriends and so on. It may cause eyerolling but it comes from a good place.

For children who have grown up completely multiculturally it is natural to say, the Korean girl, the black guy, if they are used and useful as swift identifiers, just as they would be called the English boy, the white girl. But it can feel very, very awkward if you haven't, it can sound very racist.

The resentment of pc comes in part from a resentment of being told what to do, what to say and what to think, possibly even more than what they are being told to do, say and think.

In addition some of the things one hears "pc" tales about are very urban: there are still parts of the country which are do not have that urban mixed culture.

My own take is that eg I grew up with absolutely not one single friend who was not white, there were two black children in my school and they were boys and not my year. But I was "educated" by my parents about equality so it was less natural and more intellectual, until I gained my mixed bunch of friends moving to London. Whereas for my children, who have friends of multiple nationalities

and races (at one party every single child was from a different country) it is inconceivable that anti-racism would have to be "taught" to them. I would have to actively teach them to be politically incorrect.

It is far the better way, than telling or teaching people what to say and think, and I believe this is where some of the resentment comes from.

Of course some definitely comes from racism and prejudice about sexuality and religion.

Rohanda · 08/05/2011 00:59

people who complain about 'having to walk on egg shells' I think usually mean' oh fuck, I don't have to be thoughtful and civil and consider other people's feelings do I?'

Gooseberrybushes · 08/05/2011 01:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gooseberrybushes · 08/05/2011 01:04

I hate that word with a passion. I don't know what it is about it but having written it down I find myself looking at it and thinking "did people really say that all the time"?

If it's been retrieved and "re-owned" by African-Americans, good luck to them. It's a paltry compensation for having it coined against them in the first place. Anybody who uses that "retrieval" as an excuse to use it themselves is ..what are they.. Hmm. A blockhead.

Gooseberrybushes · 08/05/2011 01:13

I'm withdrawing the post, I hate it so much. I wish I hadn't written it.

BluePyjamas · 08/05/2011 01:21

Gooseberrybushes and onceamai are my new favourite looper posters. Grin

Gooseberrybushes · 08/05/2011 01:23

Why? What does looper mean?

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 08/05/2011 02:18

When I were nipper it wer 'ideologically sound' that was the identifier of a complete and utter bellend, the sort that would rant and scream at your granny for saying 'coloured' for 'ethnic minority' because people of that age wre usually taught that 'coloured' was a polite term.

nickelbabe · 10/05/2011 11:56

I've just been reminded about a recent non-pc thing.

a woman in my church gave me some things for the church magazine, among which were a coupld of anti-scouse jokes (they used the word scouse) and anti-irish jokes.

I told her the next time I saw her that I didn't want that kind of thing, and that it wasn't right to submit that kind of "joke" to a church magazine.
I categorically told her that anything that showed prejudice against anyone would not be accepted and that I was rather upset and cross that she'd even submitted them

She tried to defend herself by making excuses such as they were given to her by a liverpudlian, that she used to live in Cheshire and they all thought they were funny etc.
I reiterated that they were offensive and I didn't want to see anything like that again, that they weren't funny.

she's just been in my shop again today, still making the same excuses for them (even though an adult would have let it rest after the initial conversation): now adding that one of them had been in the Liverpool Times.

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make them any less offensive!

nickelbabe · 10/05/2011 11:58

SGB - I remember when I was a child, there was some transition between Coloured being okay and Black being okay.
I remember my black best friend scoffing at the term "coloured", saying "black people are called coloured, but we're all brown - brown all over. White people have blue eyees, red lips, yellow hair, pink skin! they're much morecoloured than black people are!"

porpoisefull · 10/05/2011 12:25

In general 'political correctness' is a term used either to refer to imaginary rules (e.g. early reference to not being able to say 'this little piggy') repeated with glee in the Daily Mail, or to not being able to say terms which are genuinely offensive.

I think the problem is that some (particularly older) people find it hard to distinguish which terms are offensive, because racist slang used to be used casually. And they believe all the made-up stories and lump the two things together, therefore believing that you have to 'tread on eggshells' not to offend people.

This has reminded me of the "I'm not racist but...." video

Oh and edam, I bloody hate the use of 'mum' and 'baby' by health professionals, like the midwives visiting after DS was born. Look, you're in my house, could you just have the courtesy to look at your notes and use our actual names. Grrr.

ScousyFogarty · 10/05/2011 12:45

yes, terminology changes down the ages. We should try andbe kind for
some of the time. It is not always easy

seeker · 10/05/2011 13:15

Aren;t you suppose to be on the radio at the moment, scouser?

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 10/05/2011 19:03

Porpoisefull: yes, you're right there: for instance about 50 years ago 'Negro' was regarded by lots of people as the 'correct' term whereas now it would be seen as very offensive.
But the sort of thing that actually is 'PC gorn mad' is someone trying to bring in official sanctions and making a huge big deal out of a confused OAP using such a word with no malicious intentions whatsoever, when a polite 'now then, Mr Garnet, these days we say 'Black'.' would do.

RunAwayWife · 10/05/2011 19:17

YANBU at all

seeker · 11/05/2011 06:23

'But the sort of thing that actually is 'PC gorn mad' is someone trying to bring in official sanctions and making a huge big deal out of a confused OAP using such a word with no malicious intentions whatsoever, when a polite 'now then, Mr Garnet, these days we say 'Black'.' would do."

And were that ever to happen it would be very silly.

HubbaHubbaBubba · 11/05/2011 11:17

On the back of this thread, DH and I have been re-naming the Seven Dwarfs this morning and pissing ourselves at our own hilarity Hmm

I like your friend's description nickelback - does make more sense! :)

My DH had to defend my cousins' choices of wife to a farmer in deepest, darkest Essex as neither cousin's wife is white. Farmer was surprised to hear that the wives were nice Hmm Hmm but, in his favour, did seem to accept the revelation with good grace (??!??)

slowshow · 11/05/2011 11:47

In general 'political correctness' is a term used either to refer to imaginary rules (e.g. early reference to not being able to say 'this little piggy') repeated with glee in the Daily Mail, or to not being able to say terms which are genuinely offensive.

Exactly right porpoisefull.

I think those people who are vehemently anti PC (and proud of it) genuinely don't understand what it means. Either that or they're bloody gullible and believe any crap they read in The Sun / Daily Mail.

Replace "PC" with "politeness" and then you realise how ludicrous "I'm anti PC, me" people are.

OTheHugeManatee · 11/05/2011 12:09

We struggle nowadays to understand how people could have been genuinely shocked and horrified by any demonstration, discussion or other glimpses of sex or sexuality. But people genuinely used to think it was deeply immoral to talk about or act on sexuality.

Nowadays the same energy goes into a society-wide denial that anyone ever has thoughts, ideas or conversations around difference (racial or otherwise) that deviate from the officially-sanctioned norm. If we have those thoughts ourselves, we're expected to repress them. The moral outrage that people express whenever someone says something 'un-pc' often comes from the energy they've put into their own repression.

mippy · 12/05/2011 21:15

My mum is a scouser and finds anti-scouse jokes very offensive.

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