or are UP parents really nuts?

[FunnysInTheGarden]

I mean talk about making all your lives difficult....

Am ready BTW for the UP parents cries of dissent [cgrin]

Oh I am with you on the in-it-for-the-money stance, LeQ. It would count as part of my grand plan to get paid lots of money for doing bugger all and get to spend more time with my own DC

Absolutely love it albertcamus I wonder if they will be trying to do the same for university and the world of work-or if, from personal experience, they know it doesn't work like that!

I think that that is probably about point 6 that I have against it. Parent anyway you like- but don't expect the rest of the world to fit in.In fact I would feel very sorry for the poor DC who finds the world like that-they are in for such a rude awakening when they find out that actually most people couldn't care less what they think and don't give them any respect!
(as shown on here-disagree with some people and you are soon told where to go-rudely. Since people are quick to point out that they don't respect the Queen I doubt whether they are likely to respect the UPed DC!)

Don't forget the 'free spirits' LeQueen (most DCs being puddings!)

LeQueen - you still haven't given any coherent argument why UP is a bad idea! Lots of arguments about how people shouldn't need to follow a "manual" to parent - which I do kind of a gree with. But I still don't understand why you are so opposed to UP? Can you explain?

albertcamus do parents really phone up and say that?

I am virtually speechless at the idea!

Look, people get rightfully het up if anyone were to criticise their decision to formula feed or whatever, but why is someone's choice of how to parent fair game for such condescension? I know that is the modus operandi of many on here, but I do find it very immature. What happened to live and let live? Or does that only apply if they are doing things your way?

I couldn't give a toss how people parent their children (as a teacher and a tutor I'm obviously very lucky to have never come across such extremes as those on here) and certainly wouldn't be so rude as to make such a mockery of others.

I followed LeQueen's arguments perfectly

This sort of experience from albertcamus I am sick of receiving phone calls from U/A parents saying: 'Joshua / Alice doesn't like Mr/s X because s/he JUST TELLS THE CLASS WHAT TO DO and DOESN'T SHOW THEM ANY RESPECT ! S/HE'S USED TO US EXPLAINING WHY IT HAS TO BE DONE!'. is her main objection-I assume.
Judging from her response with "Marcus is a very, very intelligent child, and is used to having procedures fully explained to him, then he likes to make up his own mind about whether he joins in." (Marcus was 4 at the time).

Both of which I know only too well to be true examples! (parents to avoid at all costs and disciples of Alfie Kohn I would presume)
It maybe not be Alfie Kohns fault but it is done in his name.

I guess a UP practitioner can say no... but they are advised to question themselves hard each and every time about whether that "No" is truly necessary (Kohn says all that very very explicitly in the book, I can quote again if you like). For me that's why UP is so undermining, I don't want to be told that I'm supposed to second guess/double check with myself about each and every time my "intuition" thinks "No".

Also, Kohn books says that when you do say No you should do it in a certain way, with no hint of punishment or anger, and that includes plenty of age-appropriate explanation afterwards. tbh, that's the sort of parenting style that I find utterly exhausting. Yes in practice I try to explain the reasoning behind the No, but often the more you explain the more the DC argue about it (they see that engagement as a slim chance of changing my mind). I don't want the extended argument of it; actually I don't have time & energy for it (least of all when my other DC may be squabbling like fury and nobody else is keeping an eye on the toddler)... I don't want to be made to feel guilty about wanting to keep things simple much of the time ("Because I said so, Subject Closed" is the only way to keep my sanity).

I read the book (& others like it) because I'm open-minded; I guess that's why I get drawn into these threads. I would also like to better understand people who "get UP" and think it's utterly fantastic. I just don't know anybody IRL who even heard of UP, and the picture you get of someone online is always very incomplete. So then I imagine that if I only had one child, or were 10 yrs younger, or had an au pair to do most of the daily grind stuff, or didn't mind being pestered, or if DC were different personalities ... if any or all that would make UP make sense.

LeQueen You'll have to include a chapter on indigo children.

BLWTheCubAndBf'sBecauseShe'sTooLazyToMakeBottlesOrPureeTiggaxx

ragged
I'm sorry but with no hint of punishment or anger is hellishly difficult when your member of staff has been assaulted by a child who is perfectly intelligent enough to know better, but who knows that they can get away with anything as the UP will undonditionally defend him/her. I have dealt with all of the above, and find that by far the most unreasonable parents are any shade of UP. I was particularly angry last year when a UPd 16-year old boy put a fist through a computer monitor, racially & verbally sexually abused his teacher and I was informed by the DUM that he was 'encouraged to vent his anger when bored, and this teacher is boring and bossy'. It is so sad to see young people who become highly frustrated with the real world when the reality hits them, or they hit it, in this case.

BalloonSlayer
I spend at least four hours a week explaining to various shades of UP or just misguided P that yes, three of my staff are from overseas, yes they have high expectations of how they want their classes to run, yes they understand that there are children here who have been UPd and attempt to interact with them constructively, but there have to be boundaries, or any organisation would be anarchy - and that is a highly dangerous state mentally and physically for all involved. Interestingly, on Parents' Evening, the most popular of them is my highly-educated Nigerian colleague who adopts a zero-tolerance attitude; this is admired and supported when the parents meet him in person (even the UPs are worn down by the time the darlings reach 12 + ) !

LQ my Nigerian colleague has no plans to educate his son in any school in this country, sadly, in my opinion, due to the widespread faffy-f*witted dumbing-down of all systems; what a shame, as we need all the strictly-brought up students we can get !

UP seems to me to be survival of the fittest because as soon as you have more than one DC their interests conflict.
A classroom couldn't contain more than one e.g. DC1 thinks the teacher is bossy and boring and so won't listen and is disruptive, DC2 finds the teacher bossy but is fascinated by the subject and wants DC1 to shut up, DC3 wants the teacher to lay down the law and have everyone sit still in silence-she finds her not bossy enough.

Take that down to 4 yr old level-the UPed DC has every word listened to at home and his opinion counts. He sits on the carpet in the classroom and holds forth to the class about his 'news'-however having had 'his turn' DC2 is dying to tell them his news. DC1 wanders off, kicks the DCs next to him, grabs a toy, sings a song etc because he doesn't want to listen to DC2 who has a quiet voice. He is asked politely to stop it. He says that he doesn't 'feel like it' and all the other DCs start to roll their eyes-they are fed up with it-he spoils all sessions on the carpet.

It is going to produce a self centred, oddball, who can't function socially with other DCs. Even young DCs are quite sophisticated in that they know what makes for a good friend.

Someone much earlier was putting herself out to suit 2 DCs. I think there is a huge case for saying sometimes-I know that this is boring, but it is Mummy's turn to do what she wants.

Are you a tutor, LeQueen?

don't know if anyone does really practice UP as there seems to be all different ideas as to what it entails. had never heard of it before so checked out a Facebook UP page for parents who want to use this method. it was quite interetesting.

Oooh, my favorites are the parents who cannot accept that they have average children. Either they are very gifted and must be treated with extra special specialness or they have ODD or similar and must be treated with extra special specialness.

I've heard the boredom excuse for inattention and poor behaviour before from other parents in the playground.

If I ever EVER say my dd is only misbehaving because she's bored, shoot me. Please. Or if I say she needs challenging, or needs more stimulus, the same applies. She's 10 and she's got a brain in her head. If she can't find the interest in a subject, she'll fall flat on her arse when she's older. Things are boring sometimes. That doesn't mean you can have a 'get out of jail free' card and skipt them. You have to learn to deal with it.

Sorry...not UP specific, but agree with LeQ.

I go with 'only boring people are bored'.

I agree with LeQueen's last post. Not much to disagree about there. But I'm not sure what it has to do with UP (well not as I understand it). Although I am wondering if people see different things when they read the book. As Fastedwina says "don't know if anyone does really practice UP as there seems to be all different ideas as to what it entails." From some of the posts on here I feel inclined to agree.