or are UP parents really nuts?

[FunnysInTheGarden]

I mean talk about making all your lives difficult....

Am ready BTW for the UP parents cries of dissent [cgrin]

I think UP appeals to a certain type of person. They are probably quite unsure of themselves and uncertain how to parent in an effective way. They like the idea of a book 'that tells them what to do' (ironic, considering the ethos of the book is about not telling your child what to do). The book makes them feel secure, it has guidelines and structures to follow.

What utter nonsense LeQueen. That statement could be taken and applied to any individual who buys any flavour of parenting "manual". It really makes obvious your lack of any real knowledge on this subject which as far as I can see consists of a "quick look" at the book and an acquaintance with some wishy-washy, permissive parent that you have labelled as an UP'er yourself.

Good posts, ochtayaniye

stealthsquiggle and otchayaniye I think I may have said-'that's enough' to both my and her DC when they had come back from playing in the field covered in mud and looked like they were going back again when it was nearly dark and they were quite clearly cold...

Reading now about UP-much of which I find interesting and useful-it just seems to chime perfectly with how she parents/educates. I get the impression that the mother is quite extreme/perfectionist in everything she does and that our relatively relaxed life/parenting style just was too much for her to cope with. The child is really never out of her mother's sight (I'm not talking about a toddler she is over 10 years old). She is home educated and the mother and child spend a huge amount of time together and the child has few friends of her own age. Rather sad.

It's a huge relief to me to know more about UP . I think the mother has other issues which means she is very protective of her child (and maybe she decided that she didnt like us anyway...)

I do think I love you Ochtayaniye (I hope I spelt that correctl), I always find myself nodding along to your posts.

otch----there are billions and billions of people around the world who cannot read, their are whole communities that cannot read around the subject of parenting- do you think they are arrogant to think they can parent in their own little bubbles?

'intuition' is actually often a deep-seated acceptance and absorbtion of current fashions and mores

much of the world is not exposed to the same 'current fashions' or 'current thinking' as we are in the western world. Some are not exposed to academc philosophies at all. They will never have seen Jo Frost or heard of A Kohn.

If Ups want to make a middle-class meal out of parenting, they can carry on.

I think Lequeens post is spot on

"do you think they are arrogant to think they can parent in their own little bubbles" No, of course not, because they parent in a community with its own societal contructs. It's just not a written one.

I have lived in China, Russia and Egypt and have (limited) experience of the lives of illerate communities. They are still exposed to societal norms and that extends to parenting. It's just not as splintered perhaps as it is in developing economies.

LeQueen has actually contradicted herself. Saying on the one hand, that intuition is rubbish, but then claiming that (supposedly good and proper) parents work it out for themselves without influence from outside.

Thanks NinkyNonker - having a bad day today and that cheered me up.

Exotic, you have already said that you think he writes about common sense parenting, which you've no objection to. Yet you seem to object to him writing about it for others to read.

I am a bit torn here-I get all impatient as to 'why do people need to read common sense?!' and then the realisation that some people are completely lacking in it!
I agree with LeQueen (yet again) On so many UP threads I read the phrase 'I parent intuatively' ...Well, how the fuck do you think the rest of us do it? We all use intuition on a daily basis, it's nothing knew, you know

Also with bruffin Why on earth do you need to be told how to talk to children. All children are different and both mine need parenting differently and they react very differently to stress/ being upset etc

All mine are very different and I can't talk to them in the same way in certain situations.

We are all different and you have to deal with the DC you have and not the one you wanted.
One thing that drives me mad, and it did as a DC is, 'I understand you are feeling upset because....' and mirror it all back, to empathise. I have as an adult ended up saying-'I don't really care what you understand-I want to know what you are going to do about it!'

.

everyspring - "FFS, you can still say "NO" when following a UP approach!"

Yes, I do know/understand that, but it would appear that the parents in question don't - the expression on the child's face was "nasty man said no to torturing chickens"

It is clearly their parenting rather than UP itself that I have real issues with, but UP in general in just not me, I am afraid. [muddling through parenting practitioner]

Any parent who is following UP has to accept that friends and family and community might speak to your DC sharply -they can't control the world!
I hate the idea DCs get that 'you can't tell me off-you are not my mummy'-I think 'I can and I will'!(if I want to) You are misleading your DC to let them think it.

I hate the idea DCs get that 'you can't tell me off-you are not my mummy'

And THAT is precisely why we have so many bloody obnoxious little brats that think they know their rights and have such an elevated sense of entitlement.

I pity anyone who has to deal with other peoples children on a daily basis.

Sign me up for a copy LeQueen

LeQ do you think you could make even more money by co-authoring with me (two authors, twice the bullshit authority) the sequel - "muddling through parenting - or the art of stating the bleeding obvious"?

I would like everyone who follows these trends to come back in 20yrs time and tell us how it turned out!
My observations-having known lots of DCs from babyhood, toddler groups, etc to university (with the full range of parenting options) -is that you don't get what you expect in many cases (or what the parents have expected!)

I think the principles behind it are brilliant. It brought tears to my eyes, actually, as I recognised all the things I wish my parents had given me.

It's the name I can't stand. It's so 'righteous'. So, are all the other parents 'Conditional Parenting' then? "Huh! Stupid tossers!"

LeQueen

Ahh but everyone loves a label, or a group as we have discussed, so if we sign up to your version LeQ, does that make us Fuckwit Parents? Not sure if that doesn't have a certain ring to it!

LeQueen can I please have a chapter from a (secondary) teacher's perspective? As Head of Fac I am sick of receiving phone calls from U/A parents saying: 'Joshua / Alice doesn't like Mr/s X because s/he JUST TELLS THE CLASS WHAT TO DO and DOESN'T SHOW THEM ANY RESPECT ! S/HE'S USED TO US EXPLAINING WHY IT HAS TO BE DONE!'. Sorry but DC (and I use that term up to 18) are children, they need to be subordinate in order to learn not just academic subjects but how to behave, how to relate to others, how to show respect and thus how to become an economically independent individual. Sadly, too many parents deprive their DC of this right through their misguided methods :(

I know a few people will choke on their lentil soup, but walk a mile in our shoes ...

I was just thinking about this when cooking, and I think it is just the labelling that people find nuts. We all 'parent' (I hate that as a verb) in the way in which we feel comfortable, sometimes that fits the description of a label, or a theory. For example, I have already mentioned that a friend tells me that I am an 'attachment' parent because of some of the things we do/believe with DD. I don't 'parent' her in any particular fashion, and haven't read any parenting books...we just do (intuitively) what feels right for us and for her.

So it isn't really the theories as such that get people's goat, as they are just the verbalisation of what people do, it is the prescriptive following of a theory, and righteousness that goes with it that is irritating.

As such, attachment parenting, UP, Gina Ford, BLW blah blah blah aren't 'nuts' in themselves, but following them because a book tells you they are best or believeing that others are inferior because they do it differentlly is.