or are UP parents really nuts?

[FunnysInTheGarden]

I mean talk about making all your lives difficult....

Am ready BTW for the UP parents cries of dissent [cgrin]

I really, really don't get why some people have such a big issue about UP.... Why the hostility? The weirdy defensiveness?

Excellent question.
I'm one of those people who felt demoralised and confused by reading the book. I own a well-read copy, I'm supposed to be quite intelligent, there's lots and lots I don't understand or that seems contradictory, I don't quite get it.

I like what ThisisYesterday said about how she interprets UP, I find it hard to know which parts of UP I'm "allowed" to interpret and which are core inviolable principles. I find it annoying that Kohn undermines so much and signposts so little (so little signposting I could see). People like ThisIsYesterday seem to fill in the gaps comfortably for themselves, I can't see anything but Gaps.

I have never met anyone IRL who has even mentioned UP, much less done it. My "hostility" comes straight out of how confusing I found it.... and how amusing I find online threads where people have tied themselves up in knots about how to "practice" it.

I once (foolishly, am very foolish) got embroiled with an online UP thread where I described a solution I found to get DS to wear his school clothes (chocolate raisin bribe). Oh no, the Devotees cried disapprovingly, you should A) put different clothes (like I want to massively challenge the school uniform code?) B) talk with him at great length about why he doesn't like his clothes C) consider sensory issues that need expert consultation and assessment D) Cut out labels from clothes E) take him to the shop to consider the various clothing choices (etc.). It went on and on.

WhY??? Who has the time for all that? When one chocolate raisin the first day back at school will do the trick? Why make me feel bad about it?

I think I'm the same about Gina Ford, really; her approach reassures some people perfectly but it just made me feel crud & then angry.

(i promise this is my last post, then I will poo-poo UPing no more)

I find it very very hard to believe that, people who need a book or a method dictated to them about how to parent, are going to be more in-tune with and sensitive to their kids feelings, as they proclaim to be

"I'm sorry (and you won't be agreeing with me now exotic ) but I simply don't see why any rational, vaguely sensible adult needs a bleddy book to tell them how to raise their child? A book? Really?

I used to think this -but I have been forced to realise that some people have been parented in such an appalling way that they need a role model-they want to be different -but don't know how.
For most people I would assume that it is pure common sense-and they would be far better off without a book.

I once (foolishly, am very foolish) got embroiled with an online UP thread where I described a solution I found to get DS to wear his school clothes (chocolate raisin bribe). Oh no, the Devotees cried disapprovingly, you should A) put different clothes (like I want to massively challenge the school uniform code?) B) talk with him at great length about why he doesn't like his clothes C) consider sensory issues that need expert consultation and assessment D) Cut out labels from clothes E) take him to the shop to consider the various clothing choices (etc.). It went on and on.

This is why I hate it. The DS knows he has to wear school clothes, he does it everyday and everyone else does it. Life is too short! I wouldn't give him any attention over it, or a bribe. Just tell him that he is going to school in the right clothes and to get on with it!

I'd go with the chocolate raisin in the short term and work on the problem later.

yes but give us real examples of how you parent this way so that we can understand. if your child won't brush their teeth for example - how would you deal with this? If your child doesn't want to turn the telly off - how would you deal with this? what about going to bed?

Yep - me too, Goblinchild.

The only long term problem is that DS sometimes has trouble getting used to things (like the feel of school Polo shirts after summer break).
The only way he can get used to things is by doing them.
The only way he'd do them, in any way shape or form, was with a little bribe at the start.
No long term solution except time and maturity so he can learn and know those truths for himself. I know plenty of adults that still don't handle "different" things well.

Agree with exoticfruits I as just going to post option (F) tell him to put his school clothes on!
I think the problem with debating everything with your child is that they learn to challenge everything-even the everyday stuff and it becomes very tedious .Simple no nonsense - Save the debates for the important stuff.

It is the sheer tedium that would get me down Sarah. If you have got to debate things that have to be done anyway where is the fun in parenting?
You have the DC from birth to get them used to your ways. They do as you do, that is far more valuable then 'do as I say'.

We clean our teeth, washing our hands after the loo etc etc and they copy. If they don't want to do it you just don't give them the attention-you tell them why they are doing it and that 'it will be done' -you don't have to shout-your body language and tone just say 'the whole thing is boring but everyone does it'.
I wouldn't do a bribe as such but I might say 'when you have put your school clothes on we might have time to .....' or when you have put your school clothes on I will see if I can find a chocolate raisin.' It is much better to say what you will do after they stop being tedious, than what you will do if they continue being tedious. Always aim for the positive.
Making them laugh, tickling them and then saying 'right now see if you can be dressed by the time I have made the bed, counted to 20, fed the cat etc there are lot of ways without pointless debate!

Mother of an Aspie here ragged, so I know exactly what you mean. Yes, DS has all the labels cut out of his clothing and is not good at new things suddenly sprung on him. Likewise we do the explaining and logical explanations.
You can't physically control someone who out-weighs, out-heights and out-muscles you. Not without resorting to heavy weaponry.

I would have thought our primary objective as parents was to raise adults who were happy, resourceful, resilient and who had integrity

A fat lot of good if they can't get on with their peer group and be accepted socially!!

I took socially acceptable to mean "the basics" such as wearing clothes and not eating with your hands ,being rude etc -quite honestly I really couldnt be bothered to debate this with my DC -they were taught what as acceptable from an early age- I set the example .

If you have SN then different tactics will be needed. I am talking about perfectly normal DCs who simply don't want to get dressed.

Mine struggles to be accepted socially exoticfruits, but that's more the narrow-minded bigotry and fear of difference that many adults and children have.
His quirks do no harm to others, but for many that isn't good enough.

He's got SN, but a mixture of parenting styles and techniques has made him the fine young man he is today.
He's a lot less bother than many of his classmates, as is his sister.

I think that is an entirely different problem Goblinchild. Guessing here-but I would have thought UP and choices would be too much?

Agree exoticfruit Am also a huge fan of the bedtime routine -I really miss it now they are teens .It baffles me that my Sil just sends her DC to bed-no bath,story or cuddles -best bit of the day!
Needless to say they dont settle,get up and create a huge fuss

Did the OP just post and run?

I agree-mine always had a bath and story. They just get the security of routines and it is enjoyable.(I miss it too)

sarah (or anyone) - is the bedtime routine in conflict with UP principals?

Fast, sorry to repeat, but it's been covered on the thread, this one and the UP one in Parenting. I know they're long but you did say you were interested. But having spent much time and energy already explaining (hypothetical and actual) tooth cleaning/bedtime/hitting situations (etc) I don't really feel like typing it all out again when it's already there, and I don't expect others do either.

If you have a particular situation you need help with or would like a UP perspective on, feel free to post on the support thread in Parenting. :)

I wouldn't have thought so bejeezus, but there are threads on here where people think you are mad to bath DCs everyday. I did, it was calming down, chance to talk, have a cuddle and read a story and end the day. They know exactly what to expect and you don'thave them refusingto get into bed or stay in bed. Routines are easy and help enormously.

No I don't think a bedtime routine is in conflict, but I suppose if a DC didn't want to do a particular step one night and you forced them to do it that might be at odds. But I think most people would be flexible with their bedtime routines (which is kind of what people were saying anyway - that there is a lot of crossover)