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David Cameron tells Angela Eagle to "calm down dear" at PMQ

714 replies

Bennifer · 27/04/2011 13:25

I posted this in feminism but think this is appalling, if true.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13211577

OP posts:
RobF · 28/04/2011 00:30

"ersonally i'd like to thank robf for proving why women have not been allowed to further their political careers due to the inherently sexist attitudes he has espoused on this thread. (and apparently dc)"
Nothing I have said has been remotely sexist.

"so, women are lazy, incompetent fuckwits who don't wanna graft and want to be kept at home sponging off their manly wage-earner. and any woman who has the temerity to want to earn her own living is doing so at the expense of a far more deserving working class chap who happens to have a penis?"
Never said anything even aproaching that. Plenty of women are prepared to work equally as hard of men and are able to succeed in their own right. Plenty of other women are only succesful due to quotas, biased succession policies and outright sexism in many sectors.

"ffs. a penis doesn't entitle you to a job. in the same way that tits and a uterus don't mean you have to spend thirty years dusting and ironing his shirts. i'm not sure why you think sex is linked to professional capability, rob, can you share?"
I don't think sex is linked to professional capability. I think women are capable of competing with men without having to have concessions made for them. Making allowances for women just damages the cause of genuinely capable women.

"funny, that penis/ entitlement thing again."
What penis/entitlement thing? Seems like more of a vagina/entitlement thing from where I am standing. All I asking for is a level playing field. Men and women to be treated equally in all respects. Not 50/50 quotas. The best person for the job gets it, regardless of their gender.

"and i spent 16 years in the military. i'm well used to sexist banter, i can assure you."
Would you be in favour of women serving in the infantry?

"please tell me you're just having a laugh and re-running that moronic article about the poor ickle working class men and those dreadful middle class wimmin? or i may actually have a coronary.

and fwiw, i've voted tory. still wondering why, tbh."
Do you think working-class men are treated fairly in Britain today? Do you think middle-class women appreciate all that the opportunities available to them?

Lilmeena · 28/04/2011 00:31

I think RobF is really sweet - ( hope that's not sexist )

ohyouknow · 28/04/2011 00:32

most feminists believe in equal opportunities that's = to, not > OR < - that is basically the whole idea of the movement. If people feel threatend by people equality it is only because they have something to lose. Why any PM would want to mimic Michael Winner in a poor insurance commercial i will never understand.

RobF · 28/04/2011 00:32

"rob, those disaffected males can always find themselves a nice little wage earner and stay at home cooking and rearing the kids? sounds like a bonzer little number, non? i bet they're all queuing up to get those lazy sponging women to let them in on that sweet deal?"
How many working women would be prepared to marry a "disaffected male"?

Do you think it is funny that so many men are unemployed? Or homeless? Or in prison? Or do they deserve it for being men?

ohyouknow · 28/04/2011 00:45

maybe more men claim unemployment benefit where women don't, due to women caring for families which is unpaid work etc, maybe some men are more irresponsible, mabee they commit more crime. NO it's womans fault. Should i resign so you can have my job. white working class woman here? no i don't think so. Don't blame women or feminism for your situation. Jeees, people will blame anyone but themselves.

NotaMopsa · 28/04/2011 00:47

'Why any PM would want to mimic Michael Winner in a poor insurance commercial i will never understand.'

he maybe wanted to divert things away from the fact that he was telling a blatant lie

madwomanintheattic · 28/04/2011 00:49

much as yourself, i believe that any job should go to the best qualified applicant, be that male or female. where we differ is that you apparently think that having a penis means an applicant is more capable. weird.

funny? no, i don't have much of a sense of humour about the homeless/ criminals or unemployment.

do you believe women 'deserve' to stay at home and wash socks because they are women? being male or female is, frankly, bugger all to do with any professional competency argument. unless you genuinely were serious and believe that women are creatures that just can't be doing with all that nasty work stuff, being far too lazy.

in which case, i'll assume you don't get out much. or only to the odd lapdancing club.

madhattershouse · 28/04/2011 00:50

This comment coming from Winner is bad enough...from the political leader of a nation it is unjustifiable!! NotaMopsa I think you are on the right track. Still mysogonistic and out of order!!

VajazzHands · 28/04/2011 00:53

I would have been very angry if a male colleague had spoken to me that way.

But then you would be sacked in most jobs if you spoke to your colleagues in the way british politicians speak to each other. The fact that she is a woman shoudl not mean she gets special treatment. Take it in context it was not the most horrible thing ever said by a politician, probaby not even the worst that day.

its just a lame catch out of date by 2 years catchphrase

Tolalola · 28/04/2011 01:03

You're right VajazzHands, it's certainly not the worst insult hurled by a politician, but just because it's not the worst, doesn't make it ok. And if it serves to highlight the horrendous nature of the hectoring that goes on in Parliament on a daily basis then so much the better.

Hecate was spot on with what she said upthread. The schoolyard ner-ner-ner bullying in Paliament is pathetic, not funny. FFS why can't MPs grow up and show a bit more bloody dignity. Their politicing is more than puerile name calling, it affects real people and they should have the decency to behave as though they realise that.

TheShriekingHarpy · 28/04/2011 01:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

happyeverafterhome · 28/04/2011 01:15

"many a true word said in jest" - our PMs "humourous" quip showed what he thinks of women. Parliament is still mainly an old boys club, full of unreconstructed old (and not so old) duffers - regardless of their political hue. When they put their public face on, they say what's expected, but occasionally the mask slips and we see what they really think. The "calm down dear" remark was one such occasion.

madhattershouse · 28/04/2011 01:25

Too true happy! I want AV to get through as there is an outside chance that these mysogonistic etonians may actually have to step into the real world. Politics aside this is just not the way the people that run our country should treat each other. If it were a classroom he would have been sent to the naughty chair!!

RobF · 28/04/2011 01:32

"unless you genuinely were serious and believe that women are creatures that just can't be doing with all that nasty work stuff, being far too lazy."
I have said nothing of the sort.

RobF · 28/04/2011 01:37

Do you really think that in "the real world" people get outraged over a woman being called "dear"?

If anything policitians are far too polite to each other. It all comes across as a game, with the politicians being jovially "opposed" to each other in the commons then going back to the bar and getting pissed together. Why should A Tory show respect to people whose views are diametrically opposed to theirs? And vice versa? It's one of the reasons why so many people are disillusioned with politics. The impression that politicians are all one big cosy club. If I was Cameron I'd have other words I'd like to use about Labour politicians that have completely ruined this country during their 13 years in power.

Gooseberrybushes · 28/04/2011 03:30

Have only read the first page. Can't believe how many people are saying it doesn't matter. It's disgusting and patronising. Absolutely bloody awful.

Gooseberrybushes · 28/04/2011 03:33

"Do you really think that in "the real world" people get outraged over a woman being called "dear"?"

Yes I do. If my boss called me dear in that patronising way I'd have him. Call me dear and you can fuck the fuck off.

somanymiles · 28/04/2011 04:03

larrygrylls, Angela Eagle did not whine about it. In fact I think she handled with good grace.

madwomanintheattic · 28/04/2011 05:10

my colleague - not boss, called me 'young lady'.

once.

and i quite happily inhabit the real world.

rob, you may claim to have been arguing against quotas, and claim to believe that equal opportunities rock. but what you actually said was it wouldn't be possible to get more female mps, because women (as some sort of sub-species, presumably) weren't willing to graft as hard as men.

but my favourite was 'wouldn't it be great if women did not get themselves in the position of relying on men for money?' really, er, yes. hence my suggestion that men take a 50% share of the childcare responsibilities. because oddly, i quite fancy equality.

you pay lip service to equality, and bitch about women taking men's jobs. it's 'let the best man win' (as long as he's got a penis. because if the best man has the temerity to be a middle class woman then we'll blame them for the entire collapse of society).

re women serving in the infantry - i tried my damnedest to join the marines but they wouldn't have me. it's a complete pisser that women are prevented from doing jobs because of how the men feel about them doing the job in question. again, i have no issues with selection being based on competency. why should it be anything to do with whether you've got a penis or not? come up with a standard that a candidate has to meet and stick to it. not continue to discuss it and still let it boil down to 'the men don't like it'. i was also told i couldn't serve on a mountain rescue team for the same reason. having passed the competency and fitness standards (by default - i wasn't allowed to take the competency test, but i had to train with the team members for a mountain leadership course)

seriously rob, you have no idea. just for a minute imagine what it is like to be perfectly capable of doing a job, but not being allowed to because of your sex. and watching far less capable candidates waltz in and wave their tackle about. this is not about stopping the best candidate getting the job. this is about the best candidate not even getting to the interview. because of systematic discrimination. middle class wimmin taking our jobs? big fat hairy bollocks. and yes, that is a gendered term. derogatory, in case you were in any doubt. middle class women are claiming the jobs that they are as entitled to as everyone else, and getting them if they are the most capable person to show up. and working class men are having the torygraph (or whichever paper it was) broadcast their sense of entitlement for them.

you can't genuinely have been expecting me to say 'oo, no, i wouldn't want to be in the infantry, i might break my fingernails.' ffs. why the hell not? are women supposed to be nurturing and weak, rather than tout a pack and rifle and face getting blown to bits? is that a man's job? fwiw, both dh and the dc's godfather have both been blown up in different incidents, and neither are infantry.

but anyway, david cameron. Hmm

builder · 28/04/2011 06:43

If someone used this phrase in any other work place there would be fury.
No-one has ever said this to me and I would be appalled if they did.

I supposed in PMQ anything can be said...it's not a normal workplace. However, I'm always unhappy about phrases that are only used with women. He also said 'listen to the doctor' and I had visions of an upper class toff telling his servant to go and take notice of the family doctor, rather than questioning authority.

builder · 28/04/2011 06:45

Oh, and I would only accept being called 'dear' by friends or older people.

If - when working - I was called 'dear' I would assume that my professionalism and abilities were not being considered and that I would be just being viewed as a weak female. Not that I've ever been called a dear.

CameronRocks · 28/04/2011 06:53

To all those who are spouting drivel about the Tories being a bunch of sexist toffs, can you remind me who the only one of the three major parties to have elected a female leader is?

Gooseberrybushes · 28/04/2011 07:08

Blimey I don't think it's a Tory thing. Labour are chronic at "knowing what's best" and treating everyone like incompetent dullards to be patronised and ignored.

It just a human thing and it's crap.

StewieGriffinsMom · 28/04/2011 07:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JoanofArgos · 28/04/2011 07:22

radio 4 now.