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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Need advice badly!!!

383 replies

worriedandneedsomeadvice · 25/04/2011 16:54

I've just been at the garden centre with my 7 month DD and my 4 year old cocker spaniel.

A man bent down to stroke my dog before I could tell him not to and my dog went for him. Badly. His hand was dripping blood immediately.

I apologised and apologised and my BIL (the manager of the garden centre) took over to make sure the man was okay so I could take the dog (and DD) out.

He's been a bit growly lately but has never done anything like this before.

I'm shaking. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what to do.

He's fantastic with my DD, gentle as a lamb with her but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know so I've made sure to keep him on a lead and mostly just at home. But he loves BIL so I always take him to the garden centre when we go...

I can't believe this has happened. I don't know what to do. I'm waiting for BIL to call me, but the mans hand looked terrible... Absolutely dripping with blood. It was so quick.

Please give me some advice if you can??

OP posts:
Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 12:54

Hahahaha! always one!

You got 0.01 of the whole story yet you KNOW what went wrong?

Firstly you have NO idea how old she was, you've assumed we got her as a pup. Secondly you've assumed she was lacking in both training and exercise.

Bzzzzt, wrong! rolls eyes

BeerTricksPotter · 26/04/2011 12:57

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 13:02

Bottle

You do realise that the Police won't take on aggressive dogs, don't you? That they want a dog which they can control and who won't go self-employed, not a dog with unpredictable vicious tendencies? You do understand that, right?

As you said, the Police re-trained your dog. Which indicates that you had not done it properly in the first place, that the dog was capable of being rehabilitated and that as a Police dog she would have been assessed to be highly trainable, highly biddable and capable of being very strictly controlled.

That's why the Police dogs only bite the baddies and don't go after harmless shoppers in the high street and why they can sniff out coke whilst leaving your child and his ice-cream ignored.

Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 13:03

I won't justify myself to a rude, obnoxious person who took from a tiny part of a long story that I'm an animal neglector, sorry 'bout that.

Happily there obviously 'was' something about her and the extremely expert training police dogs get helped her more than I ever could have.

Your average well intentioned dog owner, who, incidentally generally does properly care for the animal they take on doesn't have anything like the same level of expertise. She had problems beyond the help of Joe Average. I know this, she was my dog. You know next to nothing, never met her, don't know me from Adam. Such huge, unfounded assumptions don't make me the silly person make.

BeerTricksPotter · 26/04/2011 13:04

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BeerTricksPotter · 26/04/2011 13:05

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Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 13:09

I can't answer Valhalla, I simply say "re-trained" because they're trained to a different level to your average pet. Nothing more in it than that.

All I can say was she was a great dog, well cared for and a lab was my dream dog. I didn't take her on lightly. I never would. I think puppies are harder work than babies and tell anyone considering a dog to consider it at least the same level of work and committment. Overnight she changed, I honestly don't know what caused it. I couldn't deal with it because I'm not and never have claimed to be an expert, so it wasn't fair to her. She'd never shown aggression to the kids but as daft as they're portrayed to be (daft in the nice sense, I'm well aware of how clever they are) they're bloody big, powerful dogs too.

moosemama · 26/04/2011 13:12

I can't get past this whole animals are less important than people attitude that has us thinking that animals are disposable and we have the right to take their lives so easily.

Only mankind has the arrogance to believe that they are superior to the every single other living thing on the planet and that our needs and survival are of prime importance, regardless of the cost.

What exactly have our great big brains done for us - we are more violent and destructive, not only towards ourselves but towards anything/one that gets in our way, than any other creature on this planet. We have single handedly destroyed what was a beautiful and majestic planet and have we learned our lessons? No. We are, in our arrogance, continuing on a path that will most likely, one day destroy everything living thing on the planet.

Far more damage is done to humans, both adult and child, by other humans than is ever done by dogs, yet somehow a human life is more valuable than that of a dogs. Yes sometimes dogs do attack and its a terrible thing, but compared to the atrocities committed by humans every single day, its a drop in the ocean - and we supposedly are capable of higher and ethical thinking. Hmm

Stop for a second and compare a dog that snaps the hand of a stranger to the mindless thugs that are shooting each other on the street over drugs or 'territory' and the innocent people that have been caught in the crossfire or for that matter, any sort of unpredictable violence commited by humans every single day - should someone who loses his temper and punches someone, be killed in case one day he does worse? Would we ever do that or would we give him a second chance and 'in an ideal world' perhaps offer him some help support in the form perhaps of counselling and anger management?

Fwiw, I do not believe that dogs/animals have rights above humans, but I do believe that every living thing has a right to life and to be treated with respect.

When we decide to share our lives with a pet, we make a commitment to that animal's care and welfare and that commitment should be for life - not just until it gets too hard. Yes, there are situations where people are unable to cope and need help from rescue centres and other caring organisations to either support them or take over helping the animal concerned - but in this case the OP is willing to honour her commitment to her dog and do whatever is necessary to keep both him and her baby safe, as well as preventing any future 'incidents'. None of us know her set up at home, or how well she can 'manage' keeping her dog, whilst also making sure her baby is safe. She has assured us that she is able to do so and we have no reason to doubt her.

These threads always end up the same way - straight split between the anti-dog and pro-dog people and lots of wild accusations and judgements. If you have nothing constructive to add, you can't offer any sensible advice, but have come here to judge and make nasty comments, honestly, why bother.

And that wasn't directed at any poster in particular, by the way. I am just sick of seeing the same old stuff churned out every single time a 'dog' thread appears. The OP asked for help and advice, she has been given lots - from both perspectives, anything else is just judgemental spite and quite frankly demonstrates my earlier point about the human race.

Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 13:12

Beer, you're about as right to claim on the back of what you actually do know that I was a crap dog owner as you would be to say I neglect my kids because they've got odd socks on.

BeerTricksPotter · 26/04/2011 13:16

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ephiny · 26/04/2011 13:24

Agree with moosemama - humans are the violent, dangerous, unpredictable ones in my opinion, far more killing and hurt is done by humans to others of their own species and to dogs, than dogs do to us. I'm often amazed by just how patient, gentle and forgiving dogs can be, not retaliating in the face of sometimes horrific cruelty, and still being able to love and trust people again. If dogs were like us, there'd be a hell of a lot more biting incidents, it says a lot about their good nature that there aren't.

CalamityKate · 26/04/2011 13:31

.... thus perfectly illustrating why vets advice about behaviour should generally be ignored, since they are generally completely clueless about dog behaviour.

idratherbeboarding · 26/04/2011 13:33

Well I love dogs, but if I approached a dog without first asking the owner about his temperament, then really it's my problem if he bites me. Even the gentlest dog could bite a stranger if they are startled or threatened by them.

I can understand how concerned you must be, but I really don't think you are culpable in the circumstances.

Going forward, take the dog to the vets, he could be in pain hence the bad temper and muzzle him when you're out.

Good luck.

Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 13:44

My FIL trained gundogs for years, not for hunting but because they benefitted from the training to keep them busy; because you'd be a dick to take on a lab and not know the huge amount of exercise and stimulation they need. He'd have them trained to the point they would stop dead on X amount of whistles, could bring back an egg without so much as a crack in it.

He knew the score. My dog was not taken on, nor given up lightly. You've assumed it was a lack of care, attention and training, I've been told from people who met the dog that she showed signs of mental illness.

We re-homed her with a reputable no kill shelter, we kept in touch about her because contrary to what you seem to think we didn't drop her off, wave goodbye and forget she ever existed. They told us she'd been taken on as a police dog. I don't know anything more than that. I like to think it's true because unlike some people I know we don't buy a dog, get rid, buy another the second they give us trouble (don't lump me in with them because yeah, I know those types exist) it was a really upsetting time for my family, six years on one of the kids still gets a bit upset at the mention of her name. Bit galling for a total stranger who has made nothing but assumptions based on not much to decide that it's alllllll my fault because I got her all blasé without a second thought for the true amount of hard work a dog entails.

Seriously, how do you know there isn't a big, daft lab asleep at my feet now who we never had a minute's problem other than the usual you get with a puppy? you don't. Oh, nor she our first dog, so I had a reasonable idea of what I was taking on with a normal dog. Something was wrong, and you seem to think that because I'm saying this, that the police wouldn't have touched her.

That is a slightly different opinion to that of those stating quite clearly that a problematic dog can, with specialist behavioral help and training, overcome their issues and live out their lives as perfectly normal dogs. Like I said, Mrs Average dog owner isn't capable of such specialist training. It's a field of expertise that most of us don't possess.

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 13:49

Amen to that Ephiny.

I look at the Lab X who came into rescue having been locked for well over a year in a kitchen, never seeing the light of day, shitting where he ate, and wonder why the hell he's so good with humans.

So good in fact that he's shortly to be rehomed to a lovely family with a little boy. :)

I look at those who came into rescue from the pounds with eyes stuck together with infection, bodies and faces bald with mange, with cuts and scars from assault and abuse, with limbs which had been broken and just left to heel by themselves... and those who cower when you go to throw a ball for them...

And my children and I play with them, groom them, walk into "their" territory and wonder why they have forgiven my species... because I wouldn't.

No... correct that.... I don't and I never will.

BeerTricksPotter · 26/04/2011 13:49

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Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 13:55

Fair do's.

No I don't have another lab, that put me off for life and made me feel horribly inadequate. My cat isn't even speaking to me after having her bits whipped out either. I'm feeling fragile today :)

LittleMissFluffBrain · 26/04/2011 14:35

A dog bites someone so hard they're 'dripping blood.' Then the man who it happened to is keeping quiet and saying it doesn't matter he won't take it further. Um, I bloody would! He's bit once, it could happen again! What if next time it was a small child? I wouldn't be able to just say it didn't matter, I'd be reporting it. I wouldn't be able to live with myself if it badly mauled a little child next. You said yourself 'not been itself and growly.' So obviously unpredictable at the moment.

worriedandneedsomeadvice · 26/04/2011 14:54

Well, thankfully the vet doesn't share the attitude of some of the posters on here.

They checked him over and took some blood to check for anything metabolic or a problem with his thyroid. I had my DD with me in the vet (as I usually do) and they didn't seem overly concerned with her welfare when it is apparently obvious that he was trying to protect her and me from a strange man.

They usually have a behaviourist they refer dogs to but she's just moved away, I have replied to Valhalla's PM and she's going to see if she can find someone in my area.

The vet said that my dog 'absolutely' didn't need to be 'destroyed' and found the idea that it had been suggested to me quite appalling.

OP posts:
RumourOfAHurricane · 26/04/2011 15:11

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BlingLoving · 26/04/2011 15:30

Good news worried.

I have actually been chuckling at all the people on here who would never leave a dog with a baby etc. I was practically babysat by the dog on a regular basis and being left with the dog for a few minutes was par for the course on the basis that she'd let my parents know if there was a problem.

Different time and place I guess.

I will say though that my parents, particularly my father, were always very careful on training. And our dogs were very firmly disciplined and trained to ensure they knew how to behave. Similarly, we have a friend with a husky/something or other combo who is HUGE and they have two small children and the dog could not be more gentle and loving with them, even when they try to treat her like a horse. But she has had formal and informal training from my friend and her husband and gets exercised a minimum of twice a day. It's quite funny to watch her with the little one if he starts getting a bit rough - she simply stands up and walks away. LIke she's training him to realise that bad behaviour will not be rewarded! Grin

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 15:37

Bling I was recently asked to find a rescue place for a Shep whose sole crime was to walk away when the owner's PFB reached out to him... :(

BlingLoving · 26/04/2011 15:50

Vallhala, that is just bizarre. I would like to think you're joking, but have read this entire thread, so know that you're not. In our house, a dog choosing to walk away when a child reaches out and he/she isn't happy about it, is considered a good thing.

My friends with the husky would laugh hysterically if they heard that. They have zero tolerance for their DC getting all worked up if the dog isn't interested in playing their games!

BlingLoving · 26/04/2011 15:52

I probably shouldn't tell this story, but my cat bit their daughter very gently when she was playing roughly wih him. no mark or blood as he likes children and prefers to warn them away rather than attack. I was mortified. My friend's DH response was, "There's no point crying, you were too rough with the cat, he's telling you that he doesn't want to play that game."

BeerTricksPotter · 26/04/2011 15:54

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