Need advice badly!!!

[worriedandneedsomeadvice]

I've just been at the garden centre with my 7 month DD and my 4 year old cocker spaniel.

A man bent down to stroke my dog before I could tell him not to and my dog went for him. Badly. His hand was dripping blood immediately.

I apologised and apologised and my BIL (the manager of the garden centre) took over to make sure the man was okay so I could take the dog (and DD) out.

He's been a bit growly lately but has never done anything like this before.

I'm shaking. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what to do.

He's fantastic with my DD, gentle as a lamb with her but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know so I've made sure to keep him on a lead and mostly just at home. But he loves BIL so I always take him to the garden centre when we go...

I can't believe this has happened. I don't know what to do. I'm waiting for BIL to call me, but the mans hand looked terrible... Absolutely dripping with blood. It was so quick.

Please give me some advice if you can??

I want to bite someone when I go to a Garden Centre - well done dog!

A couple of weeks ago my son was in hospital and a boy 7 came on his ward having been bitten in the face by his own pet cocker spaniel.It was a completely unprovoked attack.I really felt for his mum and the little boy who were lovely and were both upset with having to deal with giving said dog away on their return.

Clearly your child is at risk.No idea how you deal with it but personally for me keeping said dog would never ever be an option.No way would I risk my child going through what this little boy went through.

and they didn't seem overly concerned with her welfare when it is apparently obvious that he was trying to protect her and me from a strange man

I don't see that as 'obvious' at all..in fact I think that's just how you've chosen to interprate this.

What if the dog decides to protect you from the baby too at some point? What if the dog bit the man because he just didn't like the way he stroked him?

I'm glad there's nothing apparently wrong with the dog but I hope the behaviour is sorted fast and that obviously the dog is muzzled in public and never allowed near the baby.

MilaMae, I tend to be a little sceptical about the number of completely unprovoked attacks upon children where a dog which has always been known for his good nature suddenly flips.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm saying that if you believe that it happens as often as people allege that it does there are a fucking huuuuge number of absolutely angelic, perfect kids out there who never so much as tread on a tail by mistake.

Sometimes, when you get talking, you'll discover that the dog was indeed very good up unto the point it snapped. So good in fact that he "Let little Johnny carry him under his arm" or that "Little Amelia used to climb all over him" and that he'd "Never snapped before, no matter what the children did to him"...

Why do you think that so many rescues won't rehome to those with young children and that those which do want, if they are reputable, to meet the children before making any decisions?

NB This is NOT about the OP and her dog of course, but speaking in general.

I agree Vall but you can also flip that on its head and say that a lot of dogs who suddenly attack and have always been so well behaved, may well have bitten their owners/family members in the past.

Worried - not a dog owner myself (prefer cats) but I think you handled this really really well...........your dog sounds like he was just looking out for your DD and who wants a strangers hand shoved in their face!!

We have a cocker Spaniel at work (she belongs to one of my colleagues and he brings her in every day for the day) - she is a very good girl, about the same age as your dog and she spends most of her time under the desk having a kip. However, when the guys go out and leave me in the office on her own she goes bananas at anyone who comes in. I used to tell her off for this but then it dawned on me that as she is only like that when I am on my own she must be protecting me so now I praise her!!

For some reason, she doesnt like the bright waist coat things that couriers seem to wear.

Hope you, your DD and your dog are ok xx

Said mother was there,witnessed the whole thing.The fact it was so unprovoked was why they were getting rid.

You misunderstand me, MilaMae, sorry if I didn't explain myself properly. I was speaking about such situations overall. A child in the situation which you described may not have poked/climbed all over/hit/hurt at the moment he flipped or even that day.

An example... my Grandad's Lab, brought up with children and grandchildren, hated black men and wasn't too keen on motorcyclists either. Good as gold with everything else but would bark and snarl at bikers and black men.

Not surprising as he was kicked by a black biker when a pup.

Likewise my own Lab hates drunks. Really, really can't stand them. He has lived in my house with my other 2 dogs, a series of foster dogs, several cats, pet rats and currently a pet ferret as well as 2 children for 9 years come this summer. Not a problem with any of us.

He was abused by an alcoholic for the first 2 years of his life.

My child comes first with me so there is no way that any dog who had bitten anyone, would be living with me and my child.
You could think round this endlessly and dress it up how you like, but as a parent it's your responsibility to put your child first, and how are you doing that if you keep a dog which has bitten in the house with them?

Surely this thread has made it clear - and I know that this is a concept which is alien to some people sleeping - that some of us who consider that we have an equal responsibility to the animals which we take on.

Yeah, I know... wow... far out concept, eh?

Ahead of it's time, maybe.

"Its", not "it's". And there is no use for that stray "who" in my first sentence either. Apologies for those typos (but not for content). :)

no, it's not ahead of it's time, it's a neglect of responsibility. Of course children come before dogs
We have a responsibility to deal humanely with dogs, of course; a dog who bites has no place in a home with children but may well be able to be managed by an adult who chooses to do so. I don't advocate killing the dog; just putting children first.

Sorry, late to the thread.
I have had many cocker spaniels and I am afraid to say that none have them have been good with strangers trying to stroke them when we are out.
They are not bothered by people when we are out and will stay away because they have no interest, but will get snappy if approached, so I just make sure I am there quick to warn the them that they don't like being approached.

Sleepingsowell - my baby loves my dog. She giggles when she sees him, lights up if he is playing with a toy or running around, and aside from that is a happy, much loved, well cared for baby.

My friend has raised her child without dogs, he is skittish around animals and runs and screams when he sees them (which if course makes them chase) and it makes for a difficult time in parks etc.

I was raised with dogs, and I believe it makes for a loving, kind and gentle person. I never really trust someone who doesn't like dogs.

So before you go sprouting your rubbish about how I don't put my child first, consider how your child will be?

I'm sure it's nothing to do with it, but children with parents like... Well... you are fucking annoying in public places.

(and my child sleepssowell too! With a dog laying under her crib..)

"Of course children come before dogs."

You forgot the last part of that sentence, Sleeping. You missed out those vital words, "In my opinion".

Because your assertion is only that... your opinion. It isn't mine.

Sleeping - You can 'put the children first' by ensuring your dog gets the training it needs, you do not need to rehome it to ensure your children are safe.

Val - rehoming a dog because he walks away from an annoying child... FFS. Honest to god I don't know how you do, what you do, without telling a few people what utter fuckwits they are.

Worried - that's good news. Did they take blood to check for Lung Disease or any other 'hidden' problems? I'm sure Val will help you find someone to help you :)

Chipping, I nearly did, I worded that appeal absolutely accurately, using the very sentences that the owner had used in their own email requesting help with finding a rescue place. So much so that the rescue owner who'd passed the request on to me to deal with got a bit arsey with me for the way it reflected on the owners.

Hang on, I'll see if I can find what I wrote.

Scruffy - I have had the opposite with CSs - mine was as daft as a brush and would have licked you to death before she growled about anything. However, I had mine overseas and from what I gather (mostly from Val) the way the breading is going here is doing a lot of damage to the breed which is a really sad as they are lovely :(

Worried - you know you are doing the right thing, don't let yourself get wound up/upset by people - it's not worth it! x

How long had your dog been growling for?

Are you with your baby and your dog the whole time he is sleeping under her crib?

I agree chipping, they are great dogs and I have never had any trouble with their behaviour towards people who we invite into our home.
Just have to watch that people don't try to stroke them when we are out or try to reach into the boot to stroke her, which to me would be common sense, but still our responsibility not strangers who don't know.

Op I would be careful where you take your dog from now on and be extra vigilent with regards to people approaching him. Hate to say it, but would also muzzle when out, in your circumstances.

I sleep in the same room FAB...

Chipping, I can't find what I wrote on the GSD rescue forum it seems to have disappeared. Owners allegedly decided to keep the dog inb the end. (More )

But.... I do still have the original email in which they answered my questions.

There were of course loads more re is he vaaxed, neutered etc etc etc but these are the pertinent parts, written by the owner themself.

Remember folks, this is the dog the owners have had since he was a tiny puppy, is now 4 years old and they wanted rid of because he walks away from their toddler.

No, that's not a typo. I said that the dog WALKS AWAY. The owners at this point wanted rid of BOTH their GSDs hence the use of "they" in my questions, the other one was FRIENDLY towards the child. The owners then decided that they only wanted to get rid of the one who walked away and then allegedly that they were going to keep both dogs.

I seriously doubt if they are still with these arseholes people.

The bold type and italics are mine, to indicate pertinent phrases.

Are they accustomed to children apart from your own? No. Has come across children on walks and will allow them to briefly pet him!!!

Are they good with other dogs? when out on walks he will pull towards a dog but doesnt show any aggression. He would like to chase other dogs in play most of the time but hasnt been allowed due to the breed and reputation.

What level of command do they have? X is extremely intelligent, and picks up training very quickley, he sits, lays, stays, gives paw, touch, stays close if off lead on a walk!! He is a brilliant dog!

How are they on a lead and do they have good recall? He does pull hard on the lead but has excellant recall when off!

What exactly is the problem with respect to your dogs and your son? What changes are you noting? Your take on the reasons for any changes in your dog's behaviour would be appreciated and could prove to be very helpful.

X is a very dominate dog and he has found it difficult to accept that he is not top dog within the house! He has never snapped at our son, or shown any sign of aggression. However he will pull away from our sons strokes, and walk away across the kitchen. On one occassion our son was stroking him and we could see it took all his self control not to give our son a warning nip because he did not want the attention. We have always kept our dogs behind gates and never in the same room as our son, but he is getting more mobile and putting his arms through the gate! We cannot lock them away forever and constrict his space anymore. It would be unfair of us to put him in a position where he bites our son if we do not see the signs as we did on that occassion.

12. What sort of a household are they accustomed to? A busy one with lots of visitors in a town house, a quiet country life etc? Busy house with frequent visitors of the same groups of people! He is very friendly, does not lick but will come and greet! He lives in the utility room and doesnt have a bed as he likes to lie on the floor, completly house trained and non destructive. Can cope with longs periods of being alone as has done in the past prior to getting our second dog!*

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• In anotherwords since getting the second dog BOTH are left alone for long periods of time!

See what I mean? The type of people I have to deal with? Numpties!