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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Need advice badly!!!

383 replies

worriedandneedsomeadvice · 25/04/2011 16:54

I've just been at the garden centre with my 7 month DD and my 4 year old cocker spaniel.

A man bent down to stroke my dog before I could tell him not to and my dog went for him. Badly. His hand was dripping blood immediately.

I apologised and apologised and my BIL (the manager of the garden centre) took over to make sure the man was okay so I could take the dog (and DD) out.

He's been a bit growly lately but has never done anything like this before.

I'm shaking. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what to do.

He's fantastic with my DD, gentle as a lamb with her but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know so I've made sure to keep him on a lead and mostly just at home. But he loves BIL so I always take him to the garden centre when we go...

I can't believe this has happened. I don't know what to do. I'm waiting for BIL to call me, but the mans hand looked terrible... Absolutely dripping with blood. It was so quick.

Please give me some advice if you can??

OP posts:
freesias · 26/04/2011 10:32

i would not advocate putting a healthy dog down but imo a dog who attacks in the manner described is not a healthy dog . if there is an obvious medical reason then treat it but if no physical reason can be found then the dog is a risk do you wait until it cause serious injury before you act .there have been cases of dogs rehomed from rescue centres with a history of aggression who have gone on to severely injure or kill another person.

on me or my dog there was a case of a cocker who atacked it's owner viciously and the trainer advised it was euthanased . so i am not alone in my opinions.

as i stated i know longer work as a vet in practice . i grew up on a farm and trained in a country where animals were animals . i was always told both during my childhood and in training that if a dog draws blood there are no second chances except in exceptional circumstances and i personally could not live with the knowledge that i could have prevented somebody being scarred physically and mentally for life because i did not act .

please note i have not been rude to anyone on this thread but stated my opinion calmly.

Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 10:32

"but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know"

Only just cottoned onto this.

freesias · 26/04/2011 10:38

dogs do understand very quickly imo that if they bite they can control their enviroment and those people around them . they bite and people back off, give them back their food , stop petting them etc .as a result they attack more quickly when provoked on subsequent occassions that is what i mean when i say the power it brings

Original poster
worriedandneedsomeadvice · 26/04/2011 10:40

Coming near DD.... Trying to look in the pram or carseat.... This is why I stopped letting him free and he was on a lead.

OP posts:
HooverTheHamaBeads · 26/04/2011 10:46

Only read OP.

I'd get the dog put to sleep if it were me. It doesn't matter if it were an adult or child the manner in which your dog bit is extremely dangerous.

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 10:47

".there have been cases of dogs rehomed from rescue centres with a history of aggression who have gone on to severely injure or kill another person."

I can bring you score after score of successful rehabilitation cases. Far more probably than you can bring to the table cases of unsuccessful rehabilitation

I take issue with the claim of "mental health" bein used as an excuse to kill animals. I would want absolute proof of all attempts to rehabilitate by experienced individuals having failed before I would accept that claim... and YOU know as much as I do that this rarely is available because it's rarely tried before an owner swans into the vet demanding that the vet kills their dog.

But, this is all anecdotal, so of no real use. The statistics speak for themselves... the number of people killed or seriously harmed in the UK by dogs is far less than those killed or harmed by other people pro rata. The number of dogs killing or seriously harming in the UK is negligible in comparison to the number of dogs owned and the number of households with pet dogs (two different categories IYSWIM). The number of healthy dogs killed each week is enormous.... by pounds, by organisations such as the RSPCA who will also use "mental health" as a get out clause an as an excuse for not putting the money and the work into a difficult dog and by unscrupulous vets too.

Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 10:48

Worried it's absolutely no criticism of you, I think you've done all the right things so far and yeah he does sound really protective but still, he is growly at kids. I just think that if there is no medical cause and if there isn't 100% improvement; IE he completely stops the growly behaviour then it'd be a massive risk to keep him no matter how much a loved part of the family he is. If god forbid he ever went for your child not only is your child harmed but you've lost him anyway.

I know how crap it is, I had to have a dog re-homed for similar reasons, but better she is where she is now than the distinct possibility one of my kids was hurt by her.

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 10:51

Freesia I agree with the power theory as in controlling their environment. You didn't explain it very well the first time and the "taste for blood" comment was IMHO imflammatory and ridiculous.

I've seen the balance of power changed - I've done it myself. With kind, not cruel methods. It can be done. What I object to is claims that it cannnot be done and animals killed without being given a chance for those changes to be made.

Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 10:53

I once read there are more attacks by labradors than any other breed because of the large amount of them in comparison to more 'dangerous breeds' but that also out of a lot of breeds they do have more of a tendency to genuine mental health issues? I only ask because the dog I had re-homed (she was actually trained up as a police dog) was a labrador and I'm interested to know.

Original poster
worriedandneedsomeadvice · 26/04/2011 10:54

Wow - the pitchforks are coming thick and fast now...

Just to clarify for those of you aiming squarely at my beloved dog -

I will NEVER have my dog destroyed. I know my dog and would never ever do this. It doesn't matter how many of you post on here that it is what you would do. I posted on here for behavioural advice, and that is all. If you feel you have to advise me of something so horrific, do so in your head, and leave the thread.

OP posts:
soverylucky · 26/04/2011 10:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bottleofbeer · 26/04/2011 10:57

Worried, to be fair you won't have your destroyed but had the man pressed charges you might not have had the choice.

ditavonteesed · 26/04/2011 10:58

worried, If I was you I would start a thread in dog house and hide this one, you have had the advise you need and this is going to carry on turning nasty. Hope you got on alright at the vets.

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 11:01

The OP bloody well would Bottle, if she has my outlook!

Ephiny · 26/04/2011 11:02

I know of dogs that have been rehabilitated after biting as well. Sometimes they need to go to a different home (e.g. experienced owner, no children) via rescue, sometimes the owner is able and willing to keep and work with the dog with expert help. It can be done, there's no need to automatically go for the killing option. Anyway, the OP has already said that she will not consider this.

Personally don't think it's ever acceptable to kill a dog, except one that's in pain and distress that can't be helped any other way (or maybe in self defence if no other option) - basically the same scenarios where it might be justifiable to kill another person. Of course it's not good or ok for a dog to be biting people, but it's not grounds for the death penalty either, that's a massively disproportionate response for hurting someone's hand!

Original poster
worriedandneedsomeadvice · 26/04/2011 11:02

And I do, so yes I would.

OP posts:
hollyoaks · 26/04/2011 11:05

Ephiny - good advice, I think rehoming is a safe solution for your dd and the dog.

BoscosBox · 26/04/2011 11:07

Did you contact your Vet yet worried ? Will she see your dog today ?

soverylucky · 26/04/2011 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ephiny · 26/04/2011 11:10

I'm not necessarily saying the OP should try to rehome her dog, but it would be a better option to try approaching a no-kill rescue rather than having the poor dog killed, if she really didn't feel she could keep him.

Ephiny · 26/04/2011 11:11

And it does sound as though she plans to keep him, which I think is the best option of all!

SaveWaterDrinkWine · 26/04/2011 11:13

We had a gorgeous golden cocker spaniel - he was a huge part of our lives - our baby too. Then we had a real baby and I thought it was really sweet that he would lie next to my baby's cot or rocker and would jump up and sniff him. All very cute - he loved the baby, or so we thought. He quickly became very protective of him and took against my DSS then aged 10 going near him.

Our dog became very agressive to my DSS, growling, cornering him in a room and eventually he started biting. He wouldn't allow visitors to the house and would go beserk if he was shut in a room and could hear voices. He became uncontrollable - an animal we didn't recognise.

This went on for about a year - we took him to the vets numerous times who said he was healthy but eventually prescribed medication, some kind of sedative to calm him down. He didn't calm down. We paid a behaviourist to come to the house twice a week for months. It didn't work.

Things eventually came to a head one day when he seemed to go mad - he was at the bottom of the stairs behind the baby gate and effectively trapped us upstairs. He was barking, growling, biting at the bars - my DH and I tried to calm him down, distract him with food etc but nothing worked. The DCs were hysterical. We had to call the RSPCA for advice. My DH climbed out of a bedroom window and unlocked the back door where the dog ran into the garden. I was then able to run down and lock him out there. He didn't calm down for hours.

Honestly, we tried everything but on advice of the vet and the need to protect our family (not least my poor DSS who the aggression was mainly directed) we chose to have him put to sleep. The vet and behaviourist both agreed that he his behaviour wouldn't desist if he was re-homed.

It was the hardest decision I had ever had to make and one which we agonised over. The night before my DH & I stayed up with him, and we walked the three miles to the vets in tears. My heart broke when we had to say goodbye - it still hurts so bad seven years later.

We had him cremated and our then baby - now 8 year old DS - has the ashes in a box on his bedside table.

We still miss him and talk about him often but I do not regret the decision we made.

Original poster
worriedandneedsomeadvice · 26/04/2011 11:14

Hollyoaks - my dog doesn't need to be rehomed, he already has a home.

I've already spoken to my vet on the phone and will be going there later today. Thankfully, she is a kind and rational person who has known my dog since he was 8 weeks old. There was no mention of 'destroying' or rehoming. And there won't be.

OP posts:
SaveWaterDrinkWine · 26/04/2011 11:15

By the way I didn't have him killed - the vet said it was like some brain disorder and that the dog didn't really know what he was doing. I honestly felt that I was putting him out of his misery as he was constantly angry and not the pleasant dog we used to have.

worraliberty · 26/04/2011 11:15

I don't think this is over by a long chalk.

The poor man who was bitten, may well go for compensation or a family member or someone may well talk him into calling the police anyway. Presumably it'll be on CCTV if the incident took place in a garden center?

I really hope the dog has something medically wrong that can account for what he did, and that he can be cured.

Otherwise there is no way in the world I'd have him in a house with a baby.