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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Need advice badly!!!

383 replies

worriedandneedsomeadvice · 25/04/2011 16:54

I've just been at the garden centre with my 7 month DD and my 4 year old cocker spaniel.

A man bent down to stroke my dog before I could tell him not to and my dog went for him. Badly. His hand was dripping blood immediately.

I apologised and apologised and my BIL (the manager of the garden centre) took over to make sure the man was okay so I could take the dog (and DD) out.

He's been a bit growly lately but has never done anything like this before.

I'm shaking. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what to do.

He's fantastic with my DD, gentle as a lamb with her but as I said, lately he's been growly, especially at children he doesn't know so I've made sure to keep him on a lead and mostly just at home. But he loves BIL so I always take him to the garden centre when we go...

I can't believe this has happened. I don't know what to do. I'm waiting for BIL to call me, but the mans hand looked terrible... Absolutely dripping with blood. It was so quick.

Please give me some advice if you can??

OP posts:
rostbeef · 27/04/2011 10:30

Sorry OP. I should not have said you were nasty. The anonymity of Mumsnet sometimes makes it easier to say stuff you wouldn't DREAM of in real life. I hope you haven't been too upset by the thread. And as I said before its your dog, your baby you know whats best. Mums are told what to do too often by HV's, their own mums, society. You do what you feel is right.

knittedbreast · 27/04/2011 10:36

VALHALA no offence taken at all :)

i use the term put down because they lay down and dont get up again (thats how my mother explained it to me when i was little).

we also turn off life support machines but you wont hear the doctor say "its time to kill your child" either. we all know it means commiting them to death.

WORRIED- you seem to be very defensive but i think yabu in saying that you will not allow him to be put to sleep or rehomed, you may have gotten away with it this time but what about if it happens again? it wont? how can you be so sure?

dogs and cats do get a taste for blood once they have had it, ive seen it before myself. you cannot trust your pet with strangers anymore, what will you do if your dog bites a child?

Morloth · 27/04/2011 10:38

Well have a look at the man's hand and then have a look at a slight cat scratch.

There was no blood at all.

My cat is not capable of seriously disfiguring/killing my kids, she has also never attacked someone unprovoked. Your dog has.

'And plenty of babies are smothered by cats who can usually jump into cribs.'

Find a single documented case of this please, an actual case. I will have no such problems linking dog bites on kids where the owners said 'he is normally so gentle', 'has never done anything like this before' (which you can't even say).

I don't think your dog should be put down, but I do think you are crazy to keep it in the same house as a 7 month old baby, especially allowing it to sleep in the same room as the baby while you are asleep (so with the baby unsupervised).

The cat scratched DS1 because he stepped on her tail while she was asleep, so I knew the cause. You have no idea what set your dog off. That is the point. If the man had been rough with you or the dog or even spoken to you in a threatening manner then I would be right behind you. But you don't know what set it off. All you know is that now someone needs stiches because of you.

If the cat had scratched DS1 and she was big enough to do real damage she would be gone. Your dog now has form and clearly is big enough to do real damage.

You asked for advice, my advice is to keep the dog away from the baby completely, he can no longer be trusted, you don't know what set him off, you were right there and he hurt someone enough to require stitches.

You are taking a risk I would not take because you have anthropomorphised an animal. It is totally your risk to take, but don't pretend it isn't a risk.

I don't understand your thinking to be honest, it is completely alien to how I feel about my children.

BeerTricksPotter · 27/04/2011 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pingu2209 · 27/04/2011 10:46

You know the answer to your question. You have to get him put down.

BeerTricksPotter · 27/04/2011 10:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

knittedbreast · 27/04/2011 10:53

what is twaddle?

BeerTricksPotter · 27/04/2011 10:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Morloth · 27/04/2011 11:01

I think killing the dog (there you go Valhalla, I don't mind calling a spade a spade) is actually a step too far for this 'offence'.

But I do think that there is no way that I would allow the dog anywhere near my DCs again (even supervised) and that isn't actually possible if it is going to be living in the same house.

The dog has attacked for no apparent reason in the OP's presence. There is no training that would make me trust it again anywhere near my kids. It is a size ratio thing. For an adult man a cocker has injured his hand. For a small child the injury might be to the face and the ratio of damage would be much higher.

millie30 · 27/04/2011 11:06

Just read this whole thread. I think there is a world of difference between having your dog pts, or even rehomed at this stage, and actually being so blinkered/arrogant/foolish as to let your dog sleep under your baby's crib whilst you are also asleep and therefore not supervising.

You don't yet know why your dog bit, a few days ago you wouldn't have thought he'd ever bite someone. But now he has, and so your attitude to him being around your baby ought to change accordingly.

I don't even agree with those who say it's your baby, your risk. Why should you get to put your baby at risk just because for some inexplicable reason you are determined it should continue to sleep under her crib.

If she ended up scarred for life because whatever caused the dog to bite did so again, then she would be the one who had to bear the brunt of that, so not your risk at all, but hers. How would you ever explain to her that the reason she was scarred was because you couldn't bear the thought of the poor dog sleeping in a different room, even though he'd recently bitten another person and drawn blood?

Unbelievable.

knittedbreast · 27/04/2011 11:17

i feel i am being lied to about the meaning of twaddle. i shall google it instead

HooverTheHamaBeads · 27/04/2011 11:17

I don't think dogs should be allowed in bedrooms or free run of the whole house.

IMO allowing a dog in your bedroom is telling him he has the same rights as you.

We have a lovely Border Terrier had him since a pup and he's 10 now. I love him but at the end of the day he is just a dog, he knows his place and he respects me. We have disciplined him from day one and he is a downstairs dog, has never been allowed to sit on furniture and has not been indulged. Has never growled or bitten in the 10 years we have had him but as he's an animal I could never guarantee that it won't happen.

knittedbreast · 27/04/2011 11:17

ahh, nonsense.

BeerTricksPotter · 27/04/2011 11:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Vallhala · 27/04/2011 11:29

Just a thought here... I was coming in from the garden on Monday morning. I hadn't eaten and was moaning that I felt shaky. As I came in I turned at the back door to let my three dogs in, looking to the outside. As the last came in I closed and locked the door and spun round to follow them through a narrow gap into the kitchen when I saw something the size of my hand about 4 inches from my face, moving fast.

I screamed in shock, my heart racing in fear and I struck out, managing to make the thing land on the ground.

Which disappointed DD1 as she looked at the piece of toast and Marmite sitting on the kitchen floor having been smacked out of her hand. She'd been offering me her toast because I'd said I felt faint!

Now, I'd like to reassure you all that I don't habitually throw food on the floor, I'm not known for screaming and neither am I reknowned for whacking DDs arm when she's offering me toast. I like toast.

But when confronted by something I wasn't expecting coming towards my face I can become quite unpleasant.

It is entirely possible that Worried's cocker did nothing more than a one-off shock reaction. Not something you just presume, hence my and others' recommendation that she had him vet checked (which she has) and consult a qualified behaviouralist (which she has and will follow up).

Calls to kill this poor dog are outrafeous, cruel and immoral. They're also pointless - the OP has more sense and humanity than to do that, which she has consistantly made clear. To continue to tell her to kill her family member- which he is to the OP, whether you like it or not - are therefore as offensive as they are helpful.

Bottleofbeer · 27/04/2011 11:30

OMW now people without dogs are somehow bringing up dog-hysterical children and those with dogs are bringing up well rounded kids? absolutely heard it all now.

Isn't it a basic of having dogs that you ensure they learn their place within the family, what with them being pack animals? wouldn't allowing them to sleep in your bedroom be sending some huge signal to them that they're right up there at the top of the pecking order? therefore making future attacks on family members even more likely?

I was lucky, my facial scarring isn't too bad. But if it had have been and I later found out the dog had been a bloody known risk I'd be furious with the people that should have protected me from it. Have a word with yourself.

knittedbreast · 27/04/2011 11:34

outrafeous?

will someone get me a dictionary for xmas?

Vallhala · 27/04/2011 11:37

"I don't think dogs should be allowed in bedrooms or free run of the whole house.

IMO allowing a dog in your bedroom is telling him he has the same rights as you."Hmm

My dogs probably pretty much have in your world then. And your problem is?

I've owned and fostered dogs for going on 30 years. Every dog has had the run of the house, every dog has slept on sofas and beds. I have a 14 yo and 1nigh on 16 yo. None of these have ever bitten us and the couple which have growled when they entered the house have been ex-abuse cases who have been successfully rehabilitated. I don't know where you get these odd ideas from but as long as the dog gets off when told to there is no behaviour issue associated with him sitting on the sofa or accessing bedrooms.

A fur issue maybe, but not a behavioural one.

Morloth · 27/04/2011 11:39

Yes Valhalla but your face neither contains a bunch of canine teeth nor is it eye level with a toddler.

Nobody knows why the dog attacked the man, that is the problem. If the OP knew why, then that would be completely different. She doesn't though and until she does it is foolish in the extreme to allow the dog near the baby, supervised or not.

If she only wanted advice from people who view dogs as family then perhaps she should not have asked for advice on AIBU? She did however, so has been given a range of advice.

Vallhala · 27/04/2011 11:40

Ah... the pack theory! Someone's been watching too much Cesar Milan. Wink

Bottled the pack theory has been largely discredited by academics and following significant research.

Vallhala · 27/04/2011 11:42

I do have canine teeth actually, Morloth. So, presumably, do you. :o

Bottleofbeer · 27/04/2011 11:46

I'm genuinely puzzled as to how the pack theory can be discredited. Observed in the wild (dingos, wolves, their closest relative, even just dogs) are seen to live in packs with a definite pecking order.

Genuine ?, not being an arse :o

Morloth · 27/04/2011 11:47

Yes, 4.

Dogs have 42 (apparently), designed for tearing meat from bones.

Right at baby/toddler height.

It is madness to allow a dog that now has form for using those teeth on a person anywhere near a small unpredictable person.

Not everyone thinks dogs are as important as people. I don't.

Morloth · 27/04/2011 11:49

And Valhalla if you bit my kid because he threw a piece of toast at your face then I wouldn't let you anywhere near him either. In fact as a human you have more responsibility so I would be pressing charges, as opposed to not just wanting you around anymore.

Because humans are not dogs and dogs are not humans.

Vallhala · 27/04/2011 11:59

Morloth, I'm not given to punching out (indiscriminately or otherwise) but I can quite see that had I been standing in a different position/the hall less narrow etc I would have instinctively swung for the thing which was coming towards my face at a rate of knots... with my daughter on the end of it, unbeknown to me.

NB she didn't throw toast at me, she wouldn't dare, she was trying to put it in my mouth as a lighthearted way of stopping me from moaning that I felt faint.

What I'm saying is that mine was entirely a reflex action, borne out of shock and a natural sense of self preservation, not a considered, determined act of aggression. And it's possible that this was equally the case for the OP's dog.

Sorry, but when I have something I catch sight of out of the corner of my eye coming towards my face at some speed and of which I have no clue what the fuck it is I reserve the right to react involuntarily in defending my face from the object.

Even if it is a piece of toast. :o

I believe that a reflex action under those circumstances is pretty standard for many creatures.