to think that those who object to alcoholics and drug addicts getting benefits, abu?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

Alcoholism and drug addiction is not an endless Saturday night out, so much as a slow, painful decline into undignified misery and self-loathing. Most people who get into that situation are actually self-medicating an undiagnosed mental health problem.

If anything, the number of addicts in the country is a dreadful stain on the provision of mental health services.

Please don't start with the 'deserving' MS sufferer 'vulnerable' genuine' crap. I've got MS, my mother had alcoholism, I know which I'd rather have - MS. All that will happen if you take benefits off addicts is - they'll poss. become burglars or prostitutes. It won't cure addiction. Anyone who deals with addicts will tell you an addict must hit the realisation themselves that they need treatment. That's not the same as a free 'choice'.

X-post - sadly, Darth, in my experience, the benefits won't get spent on food for kids, it will be spent on drink. That's not a reason to punish the addict for their disease, it's a reason to help them and their kids. Forcing them into treatment will not work. Ever hear that Amy Winehouse song? She said 'No, no, no'.

Please can one of the people who thinks it's wrong to benefits answer my question -

What do you think will happen to those people who are chucked off benefits?
How will they survive?

I don't think it's wrong that they get benefits, I think it's wrong that alcoholism or drug addiction is classed as a medical condition in their own right and so deserve disability benefits.

That's a higher rate of benefit than they'd qualify for by virtue of being unemployed, a lone parent or a carer.

That's what I object to.

tabulahrasa, but if they are on unemployment benefit, then they have to apply for 2 jobs a week and make themselves available for work. If people fail this, and I would guess most addicts will, then what happens to them?

They will have no benefits - no JSA and possibly no housing benefit too.

Then, what do you think will happen to them?

motherofall That is exactly why most are signed off on to either income support or incapacity, it would be pointless to send them to those interviews or rely on them to turn up every week, and to be honest, the job centre staff dont want the trouble.

Then people get confused and think they are on these benefits "to get more money for bieng an addict"

They are not. Its to keep them less of a problem.

Income support is still less than ESA is, incapacity was and DLA is - in fact have an addicts allowance, at the same rate as JS entitling them to housing benefit and council tax benefit but without having to seek work, with the same medical grounds as entitles them to disability benefits now.

Alcoholism isn't a medical condition, anymore than smoking is.

I couldn't claim ESA because nicotine withdrawal interferes with working, it shouldn't be any different for other addictions.

That is exactly why most are signed off on to either income support or incapacity

The vast majority of my clients are on JSA - but most of those aren't employable. They chaotically fall off benefit by not signing on, an then the fallout in terms of criminal justice is huge. Believe me, if more were on ESA or IS the country would be paying out less.

dont agree if they stopped all the benafits to these people it would be much cheaper to blinking treat them our welfare bill is not in millions its billions that sould build a fair few rehab centres also pay for a fair few dug workers, mental health nurses and concilers

dla and ic combined can be up to £1000 a month much better to say sorry mr smith you wont get any more dla but we have used the money to pay for a weekly vist by a drugs worker

you would quickly fillter out those who want help or just the money so they can buy more super t

if you remove the benefits of someone fighting addiction you will just help them to die quicker. with no benefits they will turn to crime much quicker to pay for their addictions. there is no benefits to removing their benefits, pardon my pun

You make some excellent points Pink, and it a refreshing change to the patronising pseudo liberal claptrap spouted by so many on MN about people being victims and addiction being an illness.
Utter nonsense.

The best writer on this creation of a vast state funded underclass is a prison psychiatrist called Theadore Dalrymple. Life at the bottom is grippping reading.

To the poster who questioned whether or not theses people get more money than your average job seeker or single parent-yes they do. They are not on job seekers as would be pointless-they dont want to work and noone in their right mind would employ them. They all claim to have an illness on top of their addcition which entitles them to dla/incapacity benefit.Its simply not true-they just know how to play the system.
To answer the question about what would happen to them if we stopped giving them free money(because thats exactly how they see it-they dont give a shit that your taxes are paying for them). I agree that we have a duty to house and feed them so benefit payed directly to ha/landlord and food stamps to feed themselves. Yes they will go out and commit crime to sustain their habit but that is what they are doing now anyway so whats the difference?.
To the poster who talked about growing up with an addict-my father was and is an alcoholic. He was a functioning one in that he has always held down a job and never expected anyone else to pay for his habit. He has been offered help but he does not want to change. That is true for the vast majority of addicts in my experience and one of the main reasons for this is because we are making it all too easy for them.

I completly miffed that you think most addicts turn to crime to Fund their habit. Your father doesn't, does he?

No serenity but sadly he is the minority. Some addicts can function and have a relatively normal life but those are not the ones being discussed on this thread.
I will state it again in case you havent managed to read entire thread-addicts do not have a disability.They have an ailment that they brought upon themselves by their selfish behaviour. Thats not a disabilty. They are not victims.They are responsible for their own actions. Therefore imo they are not entitled to disability benefits.

I don;t agree that addiction is self caused always. DS1 for example has eating disorders; these in turn are linked to his ASD, ASD can also link to addictions of other types. Likewise depression etc.

My big social argument againstthis though is simple: if we could isolate those addicts who made reational choices and stop their benefits would it make them clean? No. We'd probbaly see an increase in teh crime stats though, and domestic abuse, and their kids, prents, carers struggling going without becuase Dad drank the food money. SW will intervene? No they won't, their income was cut too. Trust me, I have a disabled (not adduiicted) violent son.. There's no help.

No Mary, what I find even sadder is your assumption that only public sector workers who subscribe to the notion that addicts are helpless victims are acceptable.

The country is awash with caring, accepting non judgemental public sector workers, convinced of their own importance.
Nothing has changed.

to be honest the argument if you dont give them a bribe they will rob us all for drink and drugs is rubbish as if a junkie thinks hmmmm now i have spent my £100 dla on crack to day i wont rob an old lady i will wait till my next giro to get drugs while i withdraw

the spend their dla as soon as they get it the proceed to rob old ladys and shop lift till next tuesday

its just the same as methadone they say if we dont give if them they will buy hard drugs they either swap the methadone for somthing elese or drink the whole bottle then score the drugs they really want

maryz-there are millions of "ill,unlucky and sad sad people" the world over.The vast majority of them do not use their shitty lives as an excuse to get off their face. Junkies can smoke/drink/stick needles in their arms to their hearts content but I simply do not want to pay for them.
Yes of course their are addicts out there who do want help and are not getting it-disgraceful. But lets not kid ourselves-they are the minority.

'shocked and saddened'???
It seems you are more interested in your own feelings than the actual discussion.

They are not on job seekers as would be pointless-they dont want to work and noone in their right mind would employ them.

Did you even read my post before you set off on another rant?

They all claim to have an illness on top of their addcition which entitles them to dla/incapacity benefit

No they don't.

Surely if your husband shares your negative and one-sided attitude pink, he would be better in another job.

My thoughts exactly. Of course, if he doesn't, discussions at home must be...interesting.

Completely agree that some turn to alcohol and drugs as a way of self-medicating an untreated mental health issue.

However - isn't it true that the number of alcohol dependents/alcoholics has shot up over the past 20 or 30 years due to the use of alcohol and drugs for recreational and social purposes? It amazes me the number of people who boast about getting drunk on a night out - as if it is a marker of how much fun was had. Binge drinking on a widespread basis is increasingly common - and more scarily, deemed acceptable.

I can understand teens and perhaps people in their early 20's who experiment, but sadly it seems increasingly common that the drugs/alcohol become the central part of a social night out with friends. People begin to drink massive amounts as a habit rather than to savour, and they don't even consider a day/night out without drinking.

That, imo, is where alcohol and drug use/abuse has become an epidemic in this country. Talk to medical professionals and they will tell you that the number of people with liver damage and other drink related health issues is increasingly common. Sadly, much of our socialising includes drinking - and often to excess.

Off my soapbox now - but in a nutshell: some people are pre-disposed to drink/drugs due to genetics, mental health issues, etc. But our lifestyles are creating many more addicts via habitual use.