to think that those who object to alcoholics and drug addicts getting benefits, abu?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

Alcoholism and drug addiction is not an endless Saturday night out, so much as a slow, painful decline into undignified misery and self-loathing. Most people who get into that situation are actually self-medicating an undiagnosed mental health problem.

If anything, the number of addicts in the country is a dreadful stain on the provision of mental health services.

Addcits are taking benefits awat from people who are in genuine need. DLA is for people who have a serious disability that makes them unable to work. Addicts are too "disabled" to work but not to disabled to steal/mug,commit various crimes? The criminal court is full of them-I have seen it firsthand. They are people who are in need of our help/compassion but not addicts-they bring it all on themselves with their selfish choices and behaviour.

shesparkles Sadly you are making a common mistake.

Its wrong that your dad had to pay for that, but the government likes painting this illusion of "us or them".

If they stopped giving money to addicts, that money would not be given to Alzheimers patients. It wouldnt.

Certain things are agreed by NICE, others arnt. Blame them not the addicts.

nullius-whether or not stopping addicts benefits means more goes to those in genuine need or back into the pot to fund health/education is irrelevant to me. I do not want these people to have any of my familys hard earned cash!! end off.

Their selfish coices and behavior.

I know someone who was abused by his family, thrown out on the streets at 12, and taken in by a very dodgey man.

This man sold drugs and was into allsorts of crime. He took the little boy in, and gave him a few spliffs. He then statred locking him in a room with no food, until the boy agreed to be a drug runner for him.
Soon, the little boy started to get very ill. He could be heard from the streets screaming to be let out and throwing himself against the walls. The spliffs had contained heroin and he was withdrawing.
His oh so loving family lived in the next street and never once came to rescue him. His siblings were also turned out to fend for themselves.
He was addicted for years. They wernt his selfish choices.

He is now a fully grown man, a great father, and clean. And he is a good friend of mine.

nullius-I make no mistake at all-common or otherwise

There are a lot of areas in life in which I have VERY liberal beliefs, but this one will never change-a mile in my shoes and all that

I see every day the misery which drugs bring-a man was murdered a couple of days ago for refusing a cigarette to a person off their face on drugs

And anyone on here who "indulges" in the "occasional spliff" etc for whatever reason, you're part of the whole scene too

I'm open for any flaming anyone wishes to give me, but it will never ever be right

nullius-thats a nice little ancedote. Now let me tell you one of my own-
two people who had worked all of their lives. One had to take early retirement due to serious ill health(through no fault of their own). The other became their carer. Because one of them had a small works pension they were refused any benefits/pensions whatsoever.
I also know someone who again couldnt work due to serious illness.This person had to fight tooth and nail to get a small amount of money to live on.

The first example were my gps.The second was myself. Btw I was also abused,had an addict for a father and many other issues(look at some of my posts on pregnancy loss if you are interested). I didnt use the shitty things that have happened to me as an excuse to become a selfish taker.

I am glad your friend was able to turn their life around but many addicts choose/dont want too because they are quite happy with the status quo. Perhaps if their werent given free money it would be an incentive to do something about it?.

Posted too soon!

Nullius, believe me, I know all about how NICE works

pink4ever I absolutely agree with you that there are many Drug and alcohol addicts who could change, but choose not to. There are people who have alot of help thrown at them and throw it back.

But care and provision for addicts varies massively, and some people just are not offered the help. It not as if they have a voice to complain, when they are seen as the scum of society.

shesparkeles if you will never change your thinking then clearly there is no point in me having a debate with you. And no, I never "indulge in the occasional spliff" personally.

NICE is shit, full of double standars and seems to make up the rules as it goes along. I hate the idea of putting a price on someones life, but thats what they do.
Not enough money in the pot after the MP's have claimed all their expenses.

nullius no there is not enough money in the pot because we are giving it all to people who have never contributed a thing in their whole entire lives!!.

£270 or £100?-who cares. They should not be getting a penny.They do not have a fucking disability they have a self inflicted ailment that they could choose to do something about!!!!.

But the point you are missing is that actually, that isnt most of the money.

Say we stop all benefits tomorrow (actually you would spend the difference in court and prison services, mental health services ect. but that another debate so we shall put that to one side)

Do you really think the government would call you up and give your family the money? Give Ms smith her hip op or Mr jones a bigger pension?

Would they bollox. Theyd store it away or spend it on their own salaries, Invest it in big business owned by their own families in the city, bribe some more oil billionaires in the middle east, buy a few more nuclear weapons, bail out some other bloody third world country....
The list is endless. But it wont be your family!!
Do they ask you about the milllions they spend on trident? Did they ask you about giving ireland or portugal millions? NO. So 80 quid to a smack head wont make much difference will it.

darth do I want to see them starving on the street? not that bothered tbh but I certainly do not want to fund their lifestyle choices!. I wondered how long it would take someone to call those who disagree tories.

nullius you are absolutely right. Sadly we do not get a say in how our taxes are spent. If there was an opt out system then believe me I would vote for that!. But the issue on this thread is whether or not addicts should be given benenfits. Imo they shouldnt.

darth surely people with mental health issues are exacerbating their own condition by abusing drugs?. There are other options available to them and before you come back with oh no there isnt-I have had a mental health problem. Didnt make me drink myself into oblivion or stick a needle into my arm. There were times I wanted to believe me but I showed a bit of self respect and will-power.

i really do NOT think addicts should get benefits

darth read my earlier posts-my father is an alcoholic and many members of my family are drug addicts(heroin and prescribed drugs). They made a choice. I dont get a fucking choice in having to pay for their habits!!.

Yes Darth. apparently we are totally broke.

Totally broke, cutting hospitals and disability benefits.

But we had some millions spare to bomb Libya. Funny that!

darth yes that the point your happy to pay. I am not and dont get a choice in the matter. "Wondrous" hardly? just not weak and selfish enough to sit around getting off my tits while other people fund it. I am happy that even though you have a disability you are able to work and pay taxes but I understand for many people who have disabilities and cant work or cant find employment this is a safety net for them,as it should be.