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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that those who object to alcoholics and drug addicts getting benefits, abu?

214 replies

StuckinTheMiddlewithYou · 24/04/2011 17:43

Alcoholism and drug addiction is not an endless Saturday night out, so much as a slow, painful decline into undignified misery and self-loathing. Most people who get into that situation are actually self-medicating an undiagnosed mental health problem.

If anything, the number of addicts in the country is a dreadful stain on the provision of mental health services.

OP posts:
pink4ever · 24/04/2011 22:13

darth and nullius-I agree with you that the government also waste millions on pointless wars that we are never going to win. But that is not the question being asked in this thread.

DarthNiqabi · 24/04/2011 22:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

smokeandglitter · 24/04/2011 22:15

Op, totally agree with original statement.

LynetteScavo · 24/04/2011 22:17

Has anyone been to Skid Row in LA, or watched the Solist?

I have, and I'm glad we don't have the equivalent of Skid Row in this country. Yews, there will always be some who are unable to claim benefits for one reason or another, but I think the Labour government did a significant amount to make sure addicts and those with mental health problems are not sleeping rough.

Some will say they didn't do enough. Some will be scared of what may happen under the current government.

Call me a snob, but I do not like to see mentally ill people, or those with addictions sitting around city streets making the place look untidy.

Reindeerbollocks · 24/04/2011 22:19

I had a very good friend who has issues with alcohol that he removed himself from benefits so he couldn't afford drink anymore. He had already had a stint in rehab and it worked but he did slip back (especially as he was bored, and the advice was not to get a job for a month after coming out of rehab).

It worked for him. However he is working now, and would never go to work drunk but I live in worry that he will fall off the wagon once his income increases (he is minimum wage and barely paying bills).

Would I recommend this to anyone else - not at all. It is not a safe or nice way to beat an addiction but having watched someone go through the system it is fundamentally flawed - an alcoholic normally has a reason to drink, but because of the benefits system and the shortage of help, people do end up trapped with their illness, dependent on the state and with very little help to get clean and more importantly - stay clean.

I would prefer the money bypass the person with the addiction. Rent, bills and food managed by someone else, whilst the person with the addiction gets treatment - but then it's likely that if the person is desperate enough they'll turn to crime to fund their habit. It's a horrible situation to be stuck in and I can't understand why we as human beings want to turn our backs and let people with addictions suffer - rather than reaching out to help them (or at least trying to find ways to). I don't think keeping them in a benefits trap helps, but at least we are not letting these people starve.

Reindeerbollocks · 24/04/2011 22:20

Gosh that's long - sorry Blush

pink4ever · 24/04/2011 22:20

darth you are missing the point entirely in my posts. For people who have a genuine disability or who cant find employment due to their disability(perhaps through discrimination?) I have alot of compassion. I think it is completely wrong to try and take money from these people.They are the people for whom these benefits were created.
But I will say it again addicts DO NOT HAVE A DISABILITY!! they made a choice to do the things they do. They can make the choice to stop doing these things. But the majority of them dont because we have become enablers. This needs to stop.

nulliusxinxverbax · 24/04/2011 22:34

pink4ever I do agree with some of your points.

Do you have children? (dont want to just assume that you have because you are on here)

If you do, this is the best way I have found to explain to people. Once you are physically addicted to something, coming of it is very, very hard. Its a need not a want, a need that is very powerfull.

Imagine seeing someone pick up your baby, and walk off with it. You are screaming for the baby, but you cant get to it and you cant stop them from walking away.
That desperate need for your baby back is how a heroin addict feels once theri last fix has worn off. Constantly chasing the baby.

Spudulika · 24/04/2011 22:39

YANBU

My sister is an alcoholic. She is doing just what you say in your OP - self-medicating an undiagnosed mental illness.

She's not on benefits. She's a hard-working teacher, but I HATE the thought of what would happen if she became too ill to work and was denied help from the state.

DarthNiqabi · 24/04/2011 22:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Spudulika · 24/04/2011 22:42

"But I will say it again addicts DO NOT HAVE A DISABILITY!! they made a choice to do the things they do. They can make the choice to stop doing these things".

You are wrong.

My sister is a good, hard-working, moral person, who is killing herself with alcohol. She knows how much pain she's causing the rest of us and it's awful for her. She is doing everything she can to stop drinking but is finding it very hard. I know that if she could stop she would.

Maryz · 24/04/2011 22:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

beesimo · 24/04/2011 23:28

Maryz

When I go to mass tomorrow I shall light a candle for your lad. Don't despair where there is life there is hope, just hold the child in 'the round tower of your heart' and never give up on him. For better or worse he is your bairn and as long as he has his Mams love he will have a chance to come back into the world. All the best to you pet.

Beesimo

alicethehorse · 24/04/2011 23:54

Maryz are you in London? City Roads Crisis Intervention Centre may take your son once he's 18.

It's not strictly a rehab, it's "crisis intervention centre" - a 21 day detox for people in crisis. You can't book a place - people call the centre and keep in contact with them, and they take the most immediately deserving people on a daily basis as beds become available.

I don't know if it would be suitable for him or not, but they take people in directly - you don't have to be clean to go in.

I know someone who worked there, and AFAIK it's a good place, it's criminal in my eyes that there aren't more places like it, it's a very difficult situation that your son's as I'm sure you well know.

Original poster
StuckinTheMiddlewithYou · 25/04/2011 07:54

pink4ever Sun 24-Apr-11 20:52:01

"shesparkles*-well said but you will get flamed on here for saying that.Very easy to be liberal and tolerant when you live in leafy hampshire and dont have to deal with these people everydayhmm.

I thought you might like to know that I actually live in social housing in a very poor inner city area. I started this thread after watching two people collapse and die in the street.

I have also experienced the fall out from alcoholism within my own family.

Why not direct your anger at the government as opposed to the sick?

OP posts:
shakey1500 · 25/04/2011 08:13

pink4ever- not ALL addicts, whether it be drugs or alcohol have this "choice" you insist they have. If it is borne out of mental health issues or terrible situations they have been forced into, it simply isn't true. If you truly belive that ALL people with mh issues and addictions have something simple as a choice then you are seriously misinformed, too stubborn to accept it, or very blinkered.

So you dealt with your mh issues without spiralling into a depth of despair. Then you were very very lucky, hats off to you etc BUT not all people are physically or emotionally capable. Yet you put this across as though because you managed it then EVERYONE else should be able to. You are sitting in your ivory tower being incredibly judgemental, generalising and that's not a very nice or realistic trait to have.

pink4ever · 25/04/2011 08:41

shakey-"sitting in my ivory tower" read my fucking posts!! I have said I have many many addicts in my own immediate family. They are not self medicating mental health issues.They are scum.They would spit in my face and steal my last penny without any qualms whatsoever.
To the poster who compared heroin to "someone screaming for their baby". Dont make me laugh! The real tradgedy is that addicts have children and they dont give a shit.They often choose to feed their habit rather than feed their own kids.
To the poster who suggests her son is self medicating by using cannabis.You do know that cannabis causes and exacerbates these issues?. You mention your dc finds it difficult to even leave the house-do you buy it for him then?. have you heard of the concept of tough love?. If your son needs genuine help that he is not getting then demand it.Go to your gp and refuse to leave until his issues are addressed. Write to your mp every week. Find out who is in charge of mental health services in your area and telephone them every day. Dont take no for an answer.This works-I have done it.

shakey1500 · 25/04/2011 08:47

Sadly I have "read your fucking posts"- nice.

You obviously have a very blinkered stance and refuse to accept a different and very real viewpoint. Not a clue.

Original poster
StuckinTheMiddlewithYou · 25/04/2011 08:49

I think Pink4Ever is far too blinded by anger and pain to think logically.

OP posts:
Serenitysutton · 25/04/2011 09:04

although it's a very emotive topic I don't really think it makes sense to decide addicts shouldn't get benefits because other people go without care or meds. It's just connecting 2 things which really aren't connected.

You live in a society and being part of one means living alongside "problems". They have to be managed and we expect the government to administer that. Benefits are actually a cheap way of part managing the problem - reducing crime and it's costs.

You can judge a society by how it treats it's most vulnerable members.

pink4ever · 25/04/2011 09:16

Benefits do not reduce crime figures! Read my earlier posts ffs. I have worked in this area.The courts are full of addicts who are commiting crime constantly to top up their handouts. They walk out of court laughing(after being ordered to do drug treatment program). They dont turn up for the sessions,get a fine and then guess what dont have to pay it because they are on benefits!.

shakey-no I do accept that other people have a different view point but nothing that is said on here will change my mind on this particular topic and certainly not the nonsense idea that all addicts have "mental health" issues.Thats just simply bollocks.

hairylights · 25/04/2011 09:20

My gosh pink I feel for the people you have "worked with" after readin your attitude on this thread. Not a shred of compassion.

Serenitysutton · 25/04/2011 09:26

Pink, you've misunderstood. You cannot possibly know how many more crimes would be committed if there were no benefits for addicts.

pink4ever · 25/04/2011 09:32

hairy I have "compassion" for those with a real disability not for selfish people who take and take and take and then whine that they still not getting enough.
I have "compassion" for the families of addicts,for the victims of their crimes,for the people who try and help them and get if flung back in their face. "compassion" for addicts?-no not a shred.
Going round on circles on this thread as people seem to think they are going to change my mind. Didnt think that was the point of aibuHmm. Bye.

Al0uiseG · 25/04/2011 09:43

Far too many generalisations on this thread as always not all addicts have mh issues, plenty of today's addicts just liked taking drugs and got deeper and deeper into the culture.

I have a feeling that smoking has more of a part to play in addictions than we credit it with. Smoking seems to "switch on" the addictive side of a person. The vast majority of drug and alcohol addicts are invariably smokers.