Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that those who object to alcoholics and drug addicts getting benefits, abu?

214 replies

StuckinTheMiddlewithYou · 24/04/2011 17:43

Alcoholism and drug addiction is not an endless Saturday night out, so much as a slow, painful decline into undignified misery and self-loathing. Most people who get into that situation are actually self-medicating an undiagnosed mental health problem.

If anything, the number of addicts in the country is a dreadful stain on the provision of mental health services.

OP posts:
MollysChambers · 25/04/2011 09:47

I agree with you OP.

What is the alternative to benefits for those with no other form of income (for whatever reason)?

Starvation? A return to the workhouse?

Serious question btw. Because I can't figure out how any civilised society could withdraw benefits and continue to claim to be "civilised".

Spudulika · 25/04/2011 09:52

Pink - I agree that addicts are selfish. Addiction MAKES you selfish. It throws out your moral compass and destroys your ability to empathise with others. I see this in my sister.

She didn't become an addict because she's selfish. She became selfish because she's an addict.

Serenitysutton · 25/04/2011 09:59

Alouiseg- a lot of addiction specialists think (there is no real fact in this area as far as I can tell) that addicts smoke because they tend to be anxious and need a crutch. But of course others think they simply have addictive personalities and tend to take everything too far- getting addicted to pretty much everything you can.

alicethehorse · 25/04/2011 10:06

"What is the alternative to benefits for those with no other form of income (for whatever reason)?"

MollysChambers I agree it's a very serious question.

What exactly do we think will happen to people kicked off benefits? How will they survive?

Policies like this will see many more people on the streets, how is that good for anyone?

alicethehorse · 25/04/2011 10:19

The thing is that if benefits were being withdrawn as part of some kind of treatment program, where support and help were available, and it was genuinely being done because it was thought that that was the right thing for that person, then they could claim it was intended to have a positive outcome.

But this is so basic - take away the life-ring from all of them, and let them sink or swim. If you swim, great. If you sink, well it was your fault anyway Hmm

Only they're not going to just disappear are they?

Those that sink will turn up begging on the streets, in desperate situations such as prostitution trying to make money, in prisons and reliant on the NHS. How does that help society?

I used to live on a street with prostitutes addicted to crack, and there were a couple of them that I'd chat to from time to time. The saddest story one of them ever told me was when she was pregnant, her waters broke while she was with a punter. She didn't tell him, she finished the job and took herself to hospital.This is what people will do for addiction. (But I've got to ask what kind of excuse for a man has sex with a 9 month pregnant woman in an alley? Shock) It breaks my heart that people are living like this in this day and age, and this government wants to send more people that way.

The sooner we get the tories out the better. I don't want my son growing up in a world run by people with such a lack of compassion and basic humanity.

Al0uiseG · 25/04/2011 10:24

Why are we blaming the government for people being drug addicts?

DarthNiqabi · 25/04/2011 10:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Al0uiseG · 25/04/2011 10:45

Perhaps decriminalising drugs might be the first step to breaking the cycle of crime?

DarthNiqabi · 25/04/2011 10:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tabulahrasa · 25/04/2011 11:31

Addiction isn't a disability, it shouldn't be treated as a disability, even if it's being used to self medicate a MH issue - it shouldn't be funded. Appropriate treatment should be, but not the addiction.

It is completely ridiculous that addicts get more in benefits than lone parents or carers. All that does is make it easier to remain an addict.

alicethehorse · 25/04/2011 11:34

pink4ever please could you answer a question for me.

What do you think will actually happen to those people who are chucked off benefits?

How do you think they will survive?

nulliusxinxverbax · 25/04/2011 11:55

Just to correct you - addicts do not get more money than lone parents.

Some disability benefit may run higher, but you certainly do not get more cash for bieng an addict.

DarthNiqabi · 25/04/2011 12:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ilovesooty · 25/04/2011 12:25

Of course you don't get more cash just for "being an addict".

As for the very sensible questions posed about the effects of withdrawing benefits on homelessness and crime, I doubt that pink4ever is capable of the objective logical though process required to consider that question.

All she seems capable of is screaming and ranting.

tabulahrasa · 25/04/2011 12:26

if you qualify for disability benefits because you're an addict - you get extra money for being an addict, you can argue semantics all you want, but that is why they're getting the benefits and it is more than income support or carer's allowance

how is that not getting more cash for being and addict?

ilovesooty · 25/04/2011 12:27

objective logical -though- thought process required to consider that question.

ilovesooty · 25/04/2011 12:28

You're talking about ESA - and not too many addicts do get that.

DarthNiqabi · 25/04/2011 12:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tabulahrasa · 25/04/2011 12:40

I don't know what the figures are since they changed to ESA - but it was over 20 000 on incapacity

I don't think it should be any.

If you make yourself continuously unable to work, it shouldn't get you more in benefits than people who want to work and can't.

I know it's not a vast amount of money compared to other benefits, but it's just so inherently wrong.

If it was available only while seeking treatment I wouldn't have as big a problem with it, but it is something that has always massively bothered me - I have got experience with alcoholics and drug addicts and it is to some extent a choice, in that you can choose to seek help to stop or continue as you are and it shouldn't be easier to make the wrong choice

Serenitysutton · 25/04/2011 12:45

I don't quite get that- how do you know they don't have another disability but happen to be addicts? There are addicts in all walks of life, in fact it's not uncommon for people who are housebound to begin drinking heavily. How do you know they don't, for example, have a back problem as well as being a dug addict?

nulliusxinxverbax · 25/04/2011 12:48

tabulahrasa Addicts only get incapacity for problems running alongside addiction, for example if they are diagnosed with depression.
There is no form to fill in for "Im a heroin addict" Benefit.

An addict with no other medical condition would get standard JSA, or may be signed off long term on income support.

Lone parents also get CB and tax credits, meaning that overall, they get more cash.

ilovesooty · 25/04/2011 12:49

Figures here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13152349

tabulahrasa · 25/04/2011 12:51

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/foi-19-2011-ib-alcoholism.pdf

DWP say that's their main medical condition

tabulahrasa · 25/04/2011 12:51

www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/foi-19-2011-ib-alcoholism.pdf

link

BumWiper · 25/04/2011 12:58

as someone who had their childhood and teens destroyed by anothers alcohol addiction,I can see the point of withdrawing benefits.however it will also lead to more street crime.its a choice of two evils.save a family from the long term damage of alcoholism or reduce crime statistics.
yes addicts may be self medicating a mental health problem but that is of no comfort or respite to those close to them.