to think that those who object to alcoholics and drug addicts getting benefits, abu?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

Alcoholism and drug addiction is not an endless Saturday night out, so much as a slow, painful decline into undignified misery and self-loathing. Most people who get into that situation are actually self-medicating an undiagnosed mental health problem.

If anything, the number of addicts in the country is a dreadful stain on the provision of mental health services.

I wouldn't ever object to an addict or alcoholic receiving treatment - I do object strongly to it being a criteria which results in incapacity benefit.

If you continuously incapacitate yourself through drugs or alcohol to the point where you can't work, I don't see why tax payers should support that, that's the point where treatment should be give, not extra money

Where Do We Draw The Line?

A good overview on this issue is here

It's emotive I know but if children like Baby P had survived, taxes supporting such vulnerable young people alongside appropriate treatment seems entirely justified in a civilised society.

And let us not forget that chronic alcoholics left to get on with it will rarely need a state pension and are unlikely to seek medical treatment for even a bad illness as it may interfere with their drinking.

Drug addicts given enough to feed their habit will die even more quickly and much younger.

Pensions make up the bulk of the benefits bill. I can't help thinking that addiction has been seen as an investment. It has also created many public-sector jobs.

Addicts I don't think should receive incapacity I believe it only subsidises and enables the problem. There is next to no rehab services for the people who can't pay privately and for heroin addicts the authorities see extended methadone use as an acceptable solution. It's not and much as I feel sympathy for addicts and more again for their families I feel giving them more money in their hand in not a way to tackle the problem. It should be invested in rehab and recovery services instead.

I find it mildly amusing that anyone would think a heroin addiction would be sustainable on £80 per week.

What people should remember, is that in general benefits are given out to addicts not to help them, or out of sympathy and support, but to keep crime figures down. The same as most benefits are handed out to keep the poor off the streets and to keep us looking like a caring, civillised country. The origin of poor laws ect was to stop a revolt against the rich.

But reasons aside, I feel there is place for benefits for addicts. There are people who recover and come back to be contributing members of society. Many addicts are so because of terrible life experiences, and are medicating mental health issues. Some of these people need a little peace in thier lives, and a bit of head space, and drugs or drink gives them that.

Yes we all know that long term it doesnt solve the problem, but to them it gives them a rest from the constant pain of the past.

hairylights no the average heroin addiction is not sustainable on 80 per week, but thats 80 quids worth not bieng nicked from a shop ect, so therefore still reducing the crime figures.

Don't think sustainable purely on the benefit. Am aware though that all money and every money will be used on whatever the addiction happens to be and can't see at all why giving more money over to addicts is at all helpful when to my mind there is a massive gap in services provided to counteract the addiction.

YANBU
Mental health is the cinderella service

Stop leaving mentally ill/addicts to rot and they won't need benefits.

Take away benefits and they will still be ill just homeless and hungry as well.

OP, YANBU.

My oldest friend is a chronic alcoholic and survives on minimum benefits. He is fortunate to own the house he lives in, but, because of the illness it is virtual squalor and almost crumbling beneath him. His illness is an awful, awful thing which makes me despair most of the time but I love him dearly and help when/where I can. It got so bad that, once, when I hadn't been able to get in touch with him for a couple of weeks, after knocking at his door for an hour, I trawled the town and went into every pub to look for him. Nowhere to be seen. Eventually, I went back to his house where by this time, there was a back light on. He refused to come to the door but after creating some sob story that "I was in trouble" he opened the door an inch. My foot wedged straight in and the scene that hit me will never leave me. He was desperately ill but couldn't see it himself. I tried delicately to convince him he needed to go to hospital but he wouldn't have it. Only after offering to buy him a drink in the pub would he set foot out the door.

Shuffling along the street we approached a taxi. As we drew alongside I opened the door and bundled him in, locked the doors and told the driver to take us to the hospital. He was in for 2 weeks. His alcoholism was borne out of his mother having cancer and he had to give up his career (fabulous actor/singer) to care for her until she died. Then he became a full time carer for his nan who also got cancer and looked after her till she died a few years later. He just spiralled into depression and alcoholism then. He felt he had missed the boat career wise etc.

Lately he has been marginally better. A friend has started a new theatre group and he has done a few plays etc. It is well known that the busier he is, the less likely he will drink himself into a stupor so we try and keep him as busy as we can and take turns inviting him for dinner etc else he probably wouldn't eat otherwise.

Sorry for waffling, has been good to get it out, I love him to bits.

How low do we want people to fall before we say thats too far?

Addicts are generally people who don't love or care enough for themselves does that me nobody should care for them.

Where is all this money for rehab coming from I don't see any sign of it, the goverment are a load of bullshitters on the subject of benefits.

A dangerous situation is developing in this country where it is becoming acceptable to kick people when their down and I actually think we need to rein back on it not encourage it

Where's this going to end?

Ok I thought I'd add my experience. I work with homeless people and a lot are mentally I'll, have an addiction or both. When someone is on the streets they still get benefits. Now when they get placed in accomodation the bills and rent is covered bar £10 personal contribution per week.

A lot of my clients can work and ate on ESA or dla. A few are on high dla meaning after bills are paid they have £270 per week. Now I would never begrudge this money to the majority of recipients, however, as someone who's job it is to help these people I wish the money would be reduced or paid daily. The amount of clients who come into service then on 'pay day' relapse is really worrying. Also it can be very difficult for someone just out of rehab to have the extra money in their pocket. People need help to rebuild their lives not just money.

A heroin addiction is perfectly sustainable on that amount if you're not fussed about food or warmth or more than a basic shelter. And many addicts are not because the drug removes the concerns of basic survival. If you're that out of it you don't know that you're freezing or hungry or living in a sewer.

People will die from malnutrition or hypothermia, not just the well-publicised overdose. They might well die from withdrawal because their bodies are so weak.

Sharing needles, several diseases of the blood including HIV, the outlook isn't good.

Governments have introduced heroin to certain sections of society. Harlem in NY for example. Fighter pilots were given speed in WWII. Vietnam.

I don't think this issue is a simple as we would be led to believe.

In all fairness being a heroin addict, if you have access to a needle exchange, know how to inject and a reliable dealer is a hell of a lot safer than being an alcoholic.

I know of dozens of cases where people have stopped using heroin and switched to alcohol and died within a matter of months. Still at least it's taxed

Heroin is dangerous as you never know the strength of the stuff, then it's easy to over dose.

My downstairs neighbour is a heroin addict. I'm glad he's on benefits and has a relatively stable (albeit completely shite) existence.

He's not a bad guy. He's a weak character but basically gently and decent. He looks like death and will probably be dead sooner rather than later.

I'm happy that my taxes fund a minimum standard of living for him and hope that one day he can get clean - he's had a couple of 3 or 4 month stretches in the past.

But, yes, I agree with the op - the lives of alcoholics and drug addicts are sheer, unadulterated misery. I don't grudge life's losers their 60 odd pounds a week.

"the lives of addicts are alcoholics and drug addicts are sheer,unadulterated misery". Nope sorry thats bollocks.YABU.My dh works with such people and they choose to live the way they do.
They are offered help such as rehab,counselling etc and throw it back in peoples faces. Suggesting that all addicts have mental health issues-again bollocks!. The welfare state was created to help people who were genuinely in need not to create the entitlement culture we have now.
I have addicts(alcohol and drugs) in my own family.These people do not have horrible lives.They have a better standard of living than I do because they are handed free money!!.

A massive problem I have experienced with the system is that finding residential care for people with dual diagnosis- dependency with either mental illness/ learning difficulties is nearly impossible. A lot of addicts I work with self medicate their mental illness or have learning difficulties ( undiagnosed)

My mum died of early onset Alzheimer's

My retired physically disabled dad had to pay £100 every 4 weeks for a private prescription for the drug which held the symptoms at bay for a little while

My dad paid for mum's daycare

Dad paid for the carer's who came in to the house to see to mum's personal needs

Dad paid a whack every month when the time came that mum had to live in a nursing home.

Dad was in hospital himself, next to a junkie who was boasting about the benefits he got for his self indflicted condition

I work in an area where I see the effects of people's drug addiction every working day

Do I think drug addicts deserve any of the "help" they get for their self inflicted problems-DO I FUCK

I DARE you to call me unreasonable-I will NEVER change my opinion

"shesparkles*-well said but you will get flamed on here for saying that.Very easy to be liberal and tolerant when you live in leafy hampshire and dont have to deal with these people everyday.

Maryz my dh is in the wrong job because I dont agree with the shite you are spouting? really?. The people he's works with are offered plenty of chances to change their lives-they dont want to. "their lives are fun and fulfilled?"-eh yes because they can sit about getting off their faces and mugs like us are paying them to do it!!