To wonder why MN's so concerned with class

[ivykaty44]

Is it envy, is that what it boils down to pure envy of someone else and they might be doing better.

Even the cycling threads end up with class being brought into the mix.

Why is class brought into so many thread - even this one!

We are (mainly) British - is it not a national preoccupation?

what a middle class thread - i can't imagine anybody working class saying that.

we must all be middle class..the working class can't afford the internet surely

It's true.

It shouldn't matter what your background is, just whether you are decent or not!

only the middle class concerns itself with class.

nobody else cares.

My gran always said that "only people without any are concerned with it".

Really Hecate? Many working class people shouting about their working class "credentials"! Or is it just Julie Burchill ?

working class people who haven't been working class for years are always bleating on about it.

I find it amusing being accused of being middle class(ed?). Firstly because its an odd insult and secondly as Im not british so dont fall into the category.

Yes Nancy66!

I have found since being in UK that its the opposite hecate. Lots of scoffing at these bad bad middle calss people and much crying at the top of their voices that they are good old salt of the earth working class.

Class means nothing these days; vast numbers of redundancies and few jobs about ahs finally ended the whole thing. Yes you too middle classes- you might be on JSA too.

I reckon in reality many are like us, in a transition class. We're low income, dont; home own but do ahve degrees and the rest of it.

Our chidlren have no option but to be MC; it's inherent in where they are raised and how. Equally though DH and I didn;t just lose our backgrounds, esp. my estate / rough as fuck school one, just becuase we moved to be close to a Uni.

IME it's not only the middle class who are concerned with class. questions of 'are you posh?' or 'i bet you don't like common people like me', along with bad-upper-class accents and finishing sentences with 'wot wot wot wot' are all par for the course if you sound a little bit different down my way. And i've never fallen out with someone for being a different class, but people have used my class as a reason to fall out with me.

Just come out and say it: i'm a twat - class has nothing to do with it.

It's not just the MC.

At crappola primary we actively were mean to the private kids we met.

My parents are pretty open minded but we must have got that from somewhere because at 7 and 8 we weren;t exactly fluent in historic and economic class debate.

nancy66 but why do any class of people bleat on about it? if its working class to bleat on about it - then I am working class and if this is a middle class thread - I am middle class as I started it.

Peachy class may not mean a thing, but mners are still obsessed with class and that is even weirder that it means diddley squat, it makes no difference to whether you have a job or how much you earn - so why is it creeping into threads more and more?

People bring their discriminatory attitudes from outside MN into MN and that is what sparks the problem. The word chav is thrown around a lot for instance.

Also, when people come onto MN to moan about their 70k income not being enough to send their LO's to private school or to afford all the extra curricular activities they want, it also sparks problems. Especially when it turns out it is more or less because they overspend on luxuries in other parts of their lives. This can irritate a lot of people who are living on waaaay less in a time of austerity.

I do find that there is resentment and or stereotyping on all sides.

ivy is it creaping more and more into threads, or is just more voert as way back when this was all fields there was a fair assumption that if you were here you were not only MC but actively so: those of us who were not were hugely in the minority and just avpided the threads on Boden and Waitrose.

now it's a mix yet still maybe retains that MC aura which might spark it a bit?

Your income defines your class and your class defines you as it -in most cases- is a factor in shaping your social grouping, your living standard and essentially your ability to relate to others via experiences of your own.

MN is a place where people discuss RL, if you are defined by these attributes in RL, then that is what you will bring into MN and it will show through in your posts and so on. The same goes for religion and education IYSWIM.

Class is a big factor of our society as it does not just mean you have a little more money, it actively defines your identity, even if unconsciously.

I don;t think income does define class any more

People don;t lose their entire class culture when they are amde redundant do they? What about all thsoe recently redundant civil servants, for example?

I suspect your aspirations and sense of belonging is far more relevant

I still think 'class' is British code for 'money.' How much money have you got? Do you have a villa in Tuscany? Or do you rent a tiny caravan in Skegness?

People love to judge. And as LDNmummy says, the word chav is bandied about a lot, cos dat is wot u is if you haz no monnee innit. Which then leads to lots of sweeping generalisations about your morals, ethics, intelligence, parenting, values and so on.

I was brought up 'poor' on a very rough estate (one of the worst in Europe at the time, much improved now as they've bulldozed a lot of it but not enough) and I saw some parents do a fantastic job with no money, very little education and abusive families. I also saw some slightly more well off parents (not many parents worked) make a total selfish balls up of parenting and produce horrible shitty kids / adults.

Goes to show you never can tell.
I was raised with middle class values but no cash or education to speak of.
My husband was raised with plenty of money but very working class values.

Tis fine.

I think my surprise was it creeping into the sports and then the cycling threads, saddened as I suppose I had thought as sports as something for everyone and not registered it with class

I think because it means different things to different people. To me somebody could have millions, but if they can't use a knife and fork properly, they are not middle class. My boss earns 25k more per annum than me and has two masters degrees - she is not in my opinion middle class; she, OTH, thinks she's a cut above the rest of the department.

I find it tends to be the Hyacinth Bucket types who are obsessed with using a knife and fork properly

I had a lovely boss from Essex who was dead proud of his beige house and garden complete with ornamental statues and a manicured lawn, always using a knife and fork whether eating a sandwich or a hot meal...once he attempted to eat one of those tall plastic pots of salad with a knife and fork. He also had air fresheners all around his house...

it's not money that defines your class - it's aspiration and most importantly, education. If it's good enough for DH Lawrence, it's good enough for me!

And incidentally, how many of us know couples - cohabs or marrieds, that are what we would call 'across class' - I don't think I know of any, actually? I really don't - I think that the nation has some kind of class radar inbuilt which automatically screens out potential partners. A bit of rough/posh whatever, won't really do for the longterm relationship... or am I talking out of my butt? (oooh, first time for everything, LOLOL!)

Incidentally, I had a chap come to the door to do a survey - at the end he asked me about houseowning/job/working - and that defined me as AB1 - simple as that. I was surprised! (and fuck me, was I relieved too...)

LMIATW

Class to me, nowadays, is about how you conduct yourself. Manners, behaviour and appearance say much more about you than how much money you have in the bank.

I have yet to see a person with any class at all on the Jeremy Kyle show, and that pretty much sums it up for me.