To wonder why MN's so concerned with class

[ivykaty44]

Is it envy, is that what it boils down to pure envy of someone else and they might be doing better.

Even the cycling threads end up with class being brought into the mix.

Why is class brought into so many thread - even this one!

there's four classes now - upper, middle, working and under

how was class creeping into the sports threads?

I've often found it odd (and slightly insulting) that 'middle class' is used as an insult on MN (and in RL) - as in a thread the other day 'this is just middle class bollocks' or something. To me middle class is average. I'm not ashamed to be middle class - and its has nothing to do with money, more to do with education, culture and attitudes. Think that brilliant speech from Yes Minister about who runs the country (in terms of readers of different newspapers).

Hacker: Don't tell me about the press. I know exactly who reads the papers:
The Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country;
The Guardian is read by people who think they ought to run the country;
The Times is read by the people who actually do run the country;
The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country;
The Financial Times is read by people who own the country;
The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country;
And The Daily Telegraph is read by people who think it is.
Sir Humphrey: Prime Minister, what about the people who read The Sun?
Bernard: Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.

@FlimFlam, literally burst out laughing, gosh, do I miss YM - what a genius program!

In fact, Alexei Sayle also had a good quote about working class - they have their own radio, Radio 1, their own newspaper, The Sun, and their own sport - Grand Prix.

Ah, how we laughed in our middle class, pointy-elbowed complacency...

Actually, seems to me that some politicians are making a bid for the middle class - look at Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg both citing the MC several times recently...

Ahhh, still laughing at that post. Lovely - thank you!
x

The obessesion with class is caused by uncertainty. Thirty years ago, it was clear who was what. Now it is not so clear so people worry about it.

Status anxiety (class envy) is found everywhere where there are humans. MN is no different, but you encounter a broader cross section of society here than in RL and discover that there are status issues attached to things you had never imagined in your wildest dreams!

That is true bonsoir, but it is amplified in times of social change.

I agree Ivy - find it very funny that middle class is hurled as an insult - especially if you dare show your face in Waitrose or horror of horrors wear an item of boden
I also agree with people who have done alright ( actor luvvies etc) who harp on and on about how working class they are!
I would say how you behave defines you, not necessarily how much money you have....also whats wrong with trying to improve yourself with education etc..? Its as if self-improvenment is going out of fashion....

probably because alot of 'middle class' posters can be sneering at supposedly working class traits etc like names/supermarkets etc yet are shocked and horrified when the working class do the same.

Actually, I think that 30 (or 40, or 50) years ago, there was a rapidly expanding middle class in most European countries - the vast majority of people were upwardly mobile because of economic changes that they did not personally engineer. They were lucky and people reasonably expected to be upwardly mobile and for their children to be upwardly mobile.

That is no longer the case and there is a lot of downward mobility down the generations. People's egos are hugely hurt by this (it's not nice to be poorer than your parents), hence the anguish and a lot of point scoring ("I'm MC because I went to private school", even when the speaker lives on the breadline in a semi-skilled job).

Bonsoir - I agree the last couple of generations parents positively pushed their kids to do better and have a better standard of living than they themselves had - I think about my own Dad who was one of 8 and they were very poor and often hungry - but they all achieved something, I think poverty in a supportive family probably does propell you forward to some degree........but I have never met anyone who openly braggs about being middle class ...

Spot on, Bonsoir.

How do people actually define their class status? I am a home-owner, I work and so does DP. Am I working class? I have no idea, and don't really care if I am.

I think that the way people define their class, is largely due to what they don't want to be seen as.

Often people who describe themselves as Middle Class are terrified of being seen as a Chav - they believe that by getting their food from waitrose they are somehow immunised against catching shellsuits or brassy blonde hair. People who see themselves as working class have some kind of inferiority complex.

I think it's all a bit infantile.

LostMy- yes, several; I almost married someone privately ecuated and my sister did marry his very affluent best mate.

How do you define upper class? Everyone is always arguing about working class and middle class, but rarely mention upper class? Do you have to be aristocracy or just land owning rich?

Nowt as queer as folk! If you saw me walking down the street you might think I am well, not so much chavvy, but certainly not boden-esque. The thing is, even if I had more money, I doubt if I would look any different.

I suppose I may buy nice Russell and Bromley boots, rather than the £20 pair from ebay I last bought, which literally fell off my feet after 2 years wear, but would wear them for as long and day in day out because that is how I am. I think it is all about attitude and common sense. Bloke I work with is probably in the MC bracket, yet he shops in Lidl because it's cheap and he is sensible about money.

The upper class don't care enough to squabble about it!

So talking about being middle class is middle class.

Very!

It's no longer possible to categorise people by their purchasing habits as it was in the past: people from all walks of life shop "high-low" - in order to afford the nice things they really care about they make savings on other things. So you get people with lovely clothes and who travel a lot who don't have a car or mobile telephone...

My MIL thinks I'm middle class because I don't smack the dcs

I thought that defining yourself through material purchases was terribly working class?

Everyone defines themselves through material purchases - how can you avoid shopping in this day and age?