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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

IABU to think I shouldn't be told off by the police by daring to be a woman out alone after dark?

554 replies

MsScarlettInTheLibrary · 09/04/2011 23:29

I was walking through a deserted cut-through at around 11pm, on my way home. I'd been shopping and to the gym, as evidenced by the bags I carried.

I happened across a pair of policemen on bikes, who saw fit to brake and tell me I 'should be careful walking by myself at this time of night'.

IABU to feel angry and offended by this?

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 10/04/2011 08:05

I think that you are being very unfair-if you had been attacked you would have actually wanted them to turn up and rescue you-not say 'well she knew what she was doing so can handle it alone'!
It was just friendly advice-they were not to know how streetwise you were, whether you were trained in martial arts, had been to self defence classes or were just naive and stupid.They would also know something that you wouldn't-how dangerous a place it was in terms of incidents.

I think that one of the bad things about the internet is that someone makes a fairly bland, friendly comment and it is posted and analysed and people are invited to put in their interpretation and it grows out of all proportion. It almost puts me off saying anything to anyone!

They offered a bit of friendly advice-they were not forcing you to take it, or removing you-on a scale of 1-10 does it matter?!

TandB · 10/04/2011 08:07

LofTM - "yearning" for safety advice is not the same as accepting such advice gratefully.

And I have no idea how telling someone to be careful equates to saying "well you asked for it" if something does happen. Surely, in those officers' minds, they were simply trying to reduce the possibility of something happening so that they wouldn't be in the position of trying to reassure a devastated victim of crime that it wasn't her fault.

We could have the most morally advanced legal system possible, where there is never a hint of blame cast upon a woman attacked in the OP's situation, and it would still be better to prevent the crime happening in the first place - rather than saying 'oh well, if something does happen at least I will have the moral satisfaction of knowing that everyone knows it wasn't my fault'.

TandB · 10/04/2011 08:08

Gracefully, not gratefully.

Animation · 10/04/2011 08:17

Yeah thought so - it was the PATRONISING tone that irked you. If they'd talked to you on a level I guess their message wouldn't have been lost.

Ephiny · 10/04/2011 08:18

If there was a specific danger involved in walking in that particular area, surely they should have said so. Otherwise I think YADNBU, I thought we were still living in a free country where women were allowed to walk the streets alone without being harrassed by the police!

I don't know what you were expected to do with the 'advice' anyway - how on earth do you walk more 'carefully'? Can't see what saying such a thing achieve other than make some people feel frightened/uncomfortable, and no safer than they were before.

SardineQueen · 10/04/2011 08:20

I don't understand the idea that they were helping her.

A lot of people have suggested that maybe there was a rapist/mugger out and the police knew - in that case shouldn't they have told her? And possibly asked her where she lived and assessed the risk? If they know there is a rapist on the streets then "be careful" isn't going to help much is it!

A lot of other people have suggested that they were giving her helpful advice. How is "be careful" going to help her? It's hardly a great practical tip now is it. Most people walking by themselves at night are "careful". If she had her ipod in or something and they advised her to take it out that would be different. But just "be careful"?

If it is the OPs way home what actual practical advice were they giving her? What is the point of casually putting the wind up her about a perfectly normal walk that she makes all the time.

I think YANBU at all OP.

SardineQueen · 10/04/2011 08:22

I flat out do not understand how telling someone to "be careful" is going to prevent them being attacked, if they come across someone who wants to attack them Confused

x posts as well ephiny Smile

purpledragonfly · 10/04/2011 08:23

YABU and totally ridiculous.

SardineQueen · 10/04/2011 08:25

I guess maybe this thread falls into two camps

Those who think it is reasonable for women to walk around by themselves at night

And those who do not

And that is the real crux of the argument.

sausagesandmarmelade · 10/04/2011 08:30

Yes you are. They did the right thing.
Better for them to warn you and to patrol the area than for you to be just another statistic. You should have been grateful for their concern I think.

Is there any alternative to that cup-through?

Animation · 10/04/2011 08:30

I think it depends on the personality of the policemen really - those that talk down to folk and enjoy putting them in their place get backs up. I get the impression that the policemen in question were talking to the OP like this.

exoticfruits · 10/04/2011 08:31

I don't agree with the 2 camps. I think it quite reasonable to walk around alone at night but it wouldn't bother me to get a bit of friendly advice.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 10/04/2011 08:34

Anyway, the OP is clearly a troll. Police going at quite a pace on bikes indeed. They never get much above walking pace.

saltyseadog · 10/04/2011 08:34

Of course women (and men) should be able to walk around safely at night. However, sadly, there will always be people in our society who make it unsafe to do so.

This reminds me of the arguments I used to have with my mum in my late teens about going clubbing. Her argument was that it wasn't a case of not trusting me, she didn't trust the other punters in the club to not harm me. Overprotective may be, but I don't think she was wrong.

Goblinchild · 10/04/2011 08:34

A bit like those tourists that are warned about visiting Favelas and ghetto areas, or exciting war zones, or sailing through pirate-infested waters, ignoring the warnings as is their absolute right to do so.
The police offered an opinion, a bit of advice. They did not make you change your actions, or insist that you do other in the future.
Rape is always the fault of the attacker, as is being mugged or otherwise beaten up.
We should all have the right to walk about loaded with expensive possessions studded with diamonds, wearing nothing but feathers in our hair and glitter on our noses and be safe.
One day perhaps. Not yet.

SharonGless · 10/04/2011 08:37

I disagree - I don't have an issue with women walking around at night by themselves. Any person should be free to walk around at night but there are
What I was trying to explain was the reason for identifying potential victims of crime.

I agree that just telling someone be careful isn't sufficient target hardening. The OP does say that she was carrying gym bags perhaps warning to keep one hand free in case of attack if there have been incidents in that area. The principle is correct, however without debriefing the officers about their intentions none of us can comment on if they were being sexist or not.

violethill · 10/04/2011 09:13

Totally disagree with the narrow interpretation that this is about "those who think women should be Able to walk around at night and those who don't". For starters, where's the evidence that its anything to do with gender? I assume the police officers would have given the same advice to a lone male (particularly given that young males are the most likely group to be targeted by trouble makers/attackers).
Secondly, the OP is very loaded. The officers didn't 'tell her off' , they simply warned her to remember safety measures. There are clear guidelines about staying safe and they were just doing their job in giving that reminder. As well as this I would imagine there is a PR element too. One of the biggest criticisms of the police is that they aren't visible enough, so by stopping, making themselves known etc they are counteracting this problem of public perception.
I really don't know why it's such a big deal to the OP. No one has said she cant walk wherever she wants to.

exoticfruits · 10/04/2011 09:17

If it makes anyone feel any better my strapping 17yr old DS has been given the same advice. OP is reading way too much into it. (I was also grateful-he is in the catagory most likely to be attacked and thinks 'it can't happen to me '). Friendly advice, she didn't have to act on.

SardineQueen · 10/04/2011 09:20

Can anyone explain how saying to someone "be careful" is going to prevent them being a victim of crime? My mum often said "be careful" before I went out, I wasn't aware of that rendering me impervious to attack.

People are saying that they gave her advice and if she chooses to ignore it that is up to her. I ask again, how is "be careful" useful advice in any way, shape or form?

SardineQueen · 10/04/2011 09:22

"Friendly advice, she didn't have to act on."

In what way should she have acted on the advice to "be careful"? Or otherwise? It's not advice, is it. It's just a random thing to say.

It might have made sense as advice if she was climbing a tall tree to rescue a cat, but aside from that....?

violethill · 10/04/2011 09:23

Google it- there are plenty of lists about what 'being careful ' means , and includes things like not having expensive jewellery/ gadgets on display while out walking, not having a backpack which someone could dip into etc etc etc

Groovee · 10/04/2011 09:24

I would presume they had some intelligence on the area which may not be public knowledge. I used a back entrance to my friends house regularly as a teen and one night got stopped by the police who also wanted to know why I was holding on to my pocket. I had some coins in there was attempting not to loose them. The area had begun to pick up a reuptation hence why a police patrol was there.

SardineQueen · 10/04/2011 09:24

If they had said "there have been a spate of muggings in this area you might want to take a different route" or "there is a rapist out tonight, do you live far we could accompany you home" or "you would be better off sticking to that side of the road it is better lit" or any number of things.... fine. Good advice.

"Be careful"? Hopeless advice which makes you feel nervous and doesn't actually help in any way at all.

Goblinchild · 10/04/2011 09:25

'Be careful'
Next time perhaps walk with a friend.
Don't wear headphones.
Be alert to the possibility of an attack so you can respond.
Put your stuff in a backpack so your hands are free.
Use a more public route if possible.

I still don't understand why the OP took it as being told off.

Kallista · 10/04/2011 09:25

My best friend's policeman brother is constantly telling her where he doesn't want us going on a night out. This includes: most carparks, ALL the streets where the bars and clubs are, certain bars, and one entire part of town (where IME you are safe unless you a)are male + argue over women or b)are into drugs). I think he would lock her up at home if he could!!
It is normal for male PCs to be protective - my other male PC friend gets protective of his beat partner and she's hard-faced and twice his size!
There are local muggings and attacks here which don't make the paper - and this isn't the inner city. Then there are criminals the police know of but 'can't get exact evidence to prosecute'. They say it is a very frustrating job - and DV is hardest thing to cope with. The male PCs i know are sexist because they're from traditonal WC backgrounds but they don't mean to offend.
Also they like any excuse to chat to girls..and so do certain female PCs (!).
It's frustrating - when you work late, go out, go shopping, then what do the police expect single women who don't drive to do? Personally i'd avoid a cut through unless it's very short. A risk many women forget about are local teenage gangs who you may not know about. 2 of my female friends (age 19 + 31) were robbed and badly beaten. Again - not in notorious estates or inner cities.

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