IABU to think I shouldn't be told off by the police by daring to be a woman out alone after dark?

[MsScarlettInTheLibrary]

I was walking through a deserted cut-through at around 11pm, on my way home. I'd been shopping and to the gym, as evidenced by the bags I carried.

I happened across a pair of policemen on bikes, who saw fit to brake and tell me I 'should be careful walking by myself at this time of night'.

IABU to feel angry and offended by this?

Thanks for the link BTW, I'll have a shufty

You do realise that when feminists play very nicely, they usually get ignored or dismissed with a wave of the hand.

Any perceived aggression is just talking a bit louder. Have you seen the free range egg thread and the grand national one? There's quite a lot of loud talking on there but I will bet my house that no-one will lump all vegetarians/animal lovers/whatever in together. Or even make repeated comments to them about their tone or approach.

I worry more about my DP being out at night than me TBH. I had a job once where I had to walk home late at night and didn't bat an eyelid at it. If DP is out though I really worry about him being assaulted.

Re the OP, the coppers should really have escorted you through the dodgy area rather than just saying 'be careful'. However I don't think they were being sexist, just concerned.

ANYONE walking through an isolated alley way at any time of day needs to be careful/aware. And I guess coppers probably see all sorts of nasty stuff going down that informs their opinion/comment.

As I said dittany, I'm a woman with two daughters, so in theory I have every right to say how I think the feminist board should be and ask myself why I don't feel included in that debate.

It just so happens that I don't feel strongly enough to volunteer myself for the hostility I predict I'd get if I posted on that part of MN.

As I don't go near it it doesn't matter what the actual reality of its tone is to me, but anger and shouting other posters down just seems a counterproductive way of dealing with injustice.

I dunno AyeRobot, weedy pasty faced veggies and tree hugging animal lovers into aggressive protesting, most people are lumped in with some negative view or other.

Before this thread I never knew I was an 'uncommitted feminist', but I'm starting to warm to the projection

OP - YANBU

I saw this thread quite early this morning but was on my ipod and time pressured so not able to post the first "feminist" response on the thread.

I was actually really about all the early reponses you got and I thought to myself "hmm wait till someone with a feminist view point comes along - this will get interesting.

I think a lot of people have read a lot into what these "concerned police officer were doing/thinking" and have created a completely different cenario in their minds of police officers patrolling crime hot spots and giving out advice.

So recapping the scenario:
__

OP was walking.

Police officers on bikes cycle up.

Brake (i.e. still cycling and on bikes).

Say to OP 'you should be careful walking by myself at this time of night'.

Police officers cycle off.

_

There was no advice about a specifc risk. No asking if OP was OK etc.

In my opinion the officers instinctive comment to a woman walking alone at night are inidcative of institutionalised sexism in the police force and an example of the society we live in - a society in which the majority believe that women need to keep themselves safe.

To me that is a manifestation of a rape myth that says that women should do XYZ whatever and that if they don't then it is their fault if ABC happens.

So some people hop up and down and think this view is ridiculous.

It is AIBU here so we get to all voice our opinions.

These police officers views are much like the "advice" given by the Bristol Police force to women following the murder of Joanna Yeates.

This "advice" was basically to try to persuade women not to walk on their own after dark (dark starting around 5pm at that time of year!).

See here for how the Bristol Feminist Network got the police to change their attitude and message.

All people will take precautions as they see fit, based on experience and circumstances.

I think it is important for women to recognise messages which although appearing to be helpful are actually perpetuating sexism.

See the stop sexist remarks blog for more info.

agree with everything forkful just posted, but wanted to add that I think this kind of advice from Police Officers is also perpetuating a general culture of fear and protectionism.

Our society is one constantly trying to mitigate risk and goes too far with safety messages to everyone and not just women.

If we were instead more trusting and applying our own individual risk assessment to each scenario, rather than the most negative or lowest common denominator approach, then I suggest we'd all be a little bit more happy.

YANBU. Its your choice. Young men are statistically far more at risk of attack - are they warning all young men they see or reinforcing stereotypes and encouraging people to live in fear?

StewieGriffithsMom

Back now to respond to your post:
Lying - do you think that might be because women, in general, are socialised not to be aggressive and confrontational? Its acceptable for men to behave this way: as footballers, investment banker and traders, as lawyers etc but these professions aren't 'woman-friendly' because they expect women to behave outside of their gender?
and
Lying - my last post was in response to this comment: To me there is something oppressive - or perhaps inhibitive - about a woman (or a man) being aggressive and confrontational.

I don't really differentiate between the two. Aggressive male/female is the same for me but I think you have a point in the way that they're perceived in society. An aggressive male is often perceived as 'strong' whilst an aggressive female is usually perceived as being 'stroppy' or 'hormonal'..

That's very wrong and I certainly think that perception needs to change. Aggression is not a good thing no matter who does it. I think the truth is that we as a society have a perception about people based on gender or stereotypes and it's as hard to overcome this as it is often unfair.

There are so many things wrong with the world, not just affecting womens' rights, and I really think it's important to think for oneself. That's what I'm teaching my children. I don't want them to join groups and blindly follow what the popular opinion is, I'd much rather that they stand alone and hold their own views. It's good to challenge things and ask questions; anybody who tries to stifle that is just as much an oppressor as any dictator. I'm quite astonished at adults asking on a chatboard what they should think of specific issues; I've seen it here and on the feminist board and I've seen people with opinions slated just because they don't accord with a majority and it's not ok with me.

Ooh how lovely - I hope you simpered at them and asked them to walk you home!

Oops didn't realise it had all got serious

This attitude aggrivates me too

I walk anywhere at night at anytime nothing has happened to me in that context (granted if I were atrractive it may have been different) but as much as the police's advice was offensive

What Quicklookbusy said. My husband is also a very large man (almost six and a half feet) and he has been told to be careful when walking in dodgy places by himself.

Of course, a man raping a woman is never the woman's fault FFS. I was told after my rape that I shouldn't have gone and laid in bed with a man, kissed him, and then expected him not to have sex with me. Silly me, I was always raised to think that "no" meant "no" . But then, I was a virgin, so what did I know? But no, it was not fu*&ing my fault! It's never the the victim's fault and I understand that, maybe more than some others do.

But nowhere do I see evidence that the policemen said anything like "you could get raped," and insinuated that it would be the OPs fault if she did. I think that they were just warning her and being concerned. Good for them!

Warning her of what, though?

No-one has answered that question.

That some asshole could hurt her, obviously.

And it definitely wouldn't be her fault, but that wouldn't make her any less hurt, would it?

why?taking offence were none intended.they didnt issue you a curfew,police made a comment. you can chose to go anywhere you wish but lets face it late night and a deserted path probably more of a potential challenge than high street 3pm

AyeRobot

She is carrying shopping bags around the most likely thing that would happen is her being mugged and hurt in the process.

That would irritate me too.

I go running regularly, alone and often after dark. It isn't the job of the police to tell me not to take that risk, it's their job to attempt to ensure that the risk is minimal.

I'd be very surprised if that was news to her. That's the message that women get all the time about venturing outside alone.

I'd far rather a cheery "evening" as he cycled past.

Ormirian "I go running regularly, alone and often after dark. It isn't the job of the police to tell me not to take that risk, it's their job to attempt to ensure that the risk is minimal."

So do I, I wonder where you draw the line with this type of thinking? Is running alone in the countryside considered just as risky as in the dark? What about in the winter, when running after work always means you run in the dark? I run so often (6 days a week) its completely impractical to get a running partner for every time I run, and anyway, I enjoy running alone.

The police i know say the biggest risks here are gang crime or muggings (by desperate addicts. Yes, men are equally at risk. These crimes are more likely in dark, deserted places.
The 'be careful' would just be to remind you to be alert. They don't have the time to walk you home. They don't have the resources to prevent or solve each crime. It's up to you if you want to take a risk and walk down an alleyway at night.
I doubt they were being sexist but they probably thought you were a bit naive, sorry.