IABU to think I shouldn't be told off by the police by daring to be a woman out alone after dark?

[MsScarlettInTheLibrary]

I was walking through a deserted cut-through at around 11pm, on my way home. I'd been shopping and to the gym, as evidenced by the bags I carried.

I happened across a pair of policemen on bikes, who saw fit to brake and tell me I 'should be careful walking by myself at this time of night'.

IABU to feel angry and offended by this?

"If they thought the cut through was a danger spot, why weren't they staking it out and stopping dodgy looking people using it". Maybe that's exactly what they were doing. Who knows how shifty the op looks?

LittleRedDragon, I sound like a broken record but police officers prevent and detect crime. If you were walking round with a purse sticking out your bag, they'd point it out to you. Not because they can't be arsed to arrest the person who nicked it later that day, but because it's probably more pleasant for everybody involved that you aren't a victim of crime in the first place.

"The op doesn't know what intelligence the officers had. "

If they had some intelligence that something untoward was happening in the area - there had been a report of a mugging or something - wouldn't it have been more useful for them to mention that to the OP? Rather than just a wishy-washy "be careful".

SoH if teh police officers saw someone with their purse sticking out of their bag, would it be helpful for them to say to the person "be careful" and not draw their attention to the purse? No. What were these police officers getting at? They left the OP guessing really didn't they. Were they worried about her tripping over? About a gang of muggers around the corner? Concerned because a street light was out further along? What? Hopeless.

Considering it's the police's job to make sure that women are safe on the streets they should be putting a kurfew on men, considering the fact that it's men that commit crimes, not women.

WHy punish women, as a group, when they've done nothing wrong

It's men who are causing problems and they shouldn't be allowed to walk on the street at night until men stop attacking women.

"BUT BUT what about teh menz! we can't possibly ask ALL MEN to stay in at night... they've done nothing WRONG!!!!!!"

Well, neither have women.

Think about it.

IN other words, I hope they approach random men on the street and tell them not to walk around late at night.

"I loathe this idea that feminists are some monolithic entity who can be dismissed as stupid just because you disagree with them" but it was Ladyofthemanor who said "Oh I've just posted it on the feminist board, just so I can be reassured that women are not all fucking blind and stupid." Presumably that is a feminist calling every other woman who doesn;t agree with her fucking blind and stupid not the other way around.

Which is a bit confusing because I am a feminist and thinking that OP overreacted to a possibly pointless but well meaning word of caution does not make me "fucking blind" or "stupid". They weren't trying to stop her legal movement (by her own admission) - maybe they were idiots for thinking she understood that be careful means, or maybe they should have expeanded on why they wanted her to be careful or maybe they were being sexist. I still think she over-reacted and calling me stupid doesn;t change my opnion.

Well no they can't go around telling members of the public about suggested intelligence for many many reasons. Two of which are the ways in which it compromises investigation and the panic it can cause.

And as I've said many times 'be careful' can just switch your focus a bit in case you're wandering in a bubble. It doesn't have to be specific does it? Like the example I've given already of using your mobile phone while walking at night. It distracts you and it is advertising to potential thieves. You might not be aware of a bump in the road or a river nearby. The op might have been drunk or under the influence of drugs and not in any position to be left wandering when two able officers have sailed by. They stopped, they said something generic. And if they're out patrolling an area that has known issues then having some kind of idea of who has passed through and when is bloody vital. Because when people go missing or are hurt, the trail of what happened beforehand makes all the difference. There are a million and one reasons why a decent police officer might stop you on a deserted cut through, none of them malicious.

And no they wouldn't say 'be careful' if your purse was on show because they're referring to something specific and are able to do so.

ShowofHands- Is it your husband who is the copper?

there aren;t enough police in existence to constantly patrol every area at risk of crime and we have a duty of care towards ourselves to take some responsibility for for our own safety not devolve it to (predominantly) male police officers.

Political campaigning to make streets safe is not the same point as keeping yourself safe to the best of your ability wihtout compromising your day to day life - whether you are 8 or 80, male or female.

'I loathe this idea that feminists are some monolithic entity who can be dismissed as stupid just because you disagree with them. It's the essence of misogyny.'

And women who are not on the Feminist board?

'Oh I've just posted it on the feminist board, just so I can be reassured that women are not all fucking blind and stupid.'

Is that misogynistic?

maybe they slowed down to check her out because she looked a bit dodgy with all her suspicious packages then had to think of something to say to justify it when it looked like nothing worse than a few morrisons bags.

SOH, that's the point isn't it? If someone said to me 'hey, your purse is hanging out of your bag', I would understand why they'd said it. Police or not. If the police said 'you can't go through this way at the moment' or 'sorry, there's something going on and we need you to get out of the way', both of those would make sense too.

Telling someone she shouldn't be out simply because it's nighttime in the cut-through near where she lives is unacceptable, though. What could the OP possibly have done with their 'advice' other than never go out alone at night and/or not use streets near her home?

Surely it is very simple to conclude that these officers, for whatever reason, were not confident they could do their jobs and were trying to put the blame on the OP, not on the criminals?

That's what I thought, Kewcumber.

They didn't say she shouldn't be out. They said to be careful. If they'd started listing ways of being careful, how can we know that it wouldn't be considered all the more patronising? And trying to prevent crime is not apportioning blame or shirking responsibility. It's just not a leap you can make.

As I said earlier dh has stopped people many, many, many times in Primark as their purses are on show (we have a gang that target Primark and steal purses out of bags). DH has been told to fuck off, that he shouldn't approach female shoppers, that he's implying people are fucking thick etc etc. So even when there's a clear reason for a police officer trying to help, they still get attacked. And you'd be surprised by how people react to 'I'm afraid you can't go down here' (when somebody has just been attacked in a deserted street) because it's not all 'of course officer', there's also a lot of 'screw you, you can't tell me what to do.'

I'm not here to defend the police. But I just can't see that two officers stopping in a deserted area and saying what they did is deserving of all these throwaway comments about not doing their jobs, accusing women of asking to be raped or being patronising and misogynistic.

SOH, how exactly was she meant to be careful? Did they think she was about to fall and skin her knees? Or what?

What does 'careful' mean in this context, please?

I'm sorry your DH gets abuse when he's doing his job, that sounds tough. But I think it's pretty clear in this case that the officers in question were not thinking very hard, really. It doesn't reflect on your DH.

Sardine- thank you

I asked that ages ago. How does being told be careful help anyone? What should they change. Was the op being the opposite and needed telling?
I honestly don't see how it helped at all

Ok i tell my nan to 'be careful' walking outside - even though i won't be there to stop her falling.
I expect those policemen would have a right laugh at this thread!
'Be careful' is a phrase you use to someone to show you are concerned and they should look out for themselves. How is that offensive? They were patronising but a lot of men are - all OP needed to say was 'i'm fine thanks, you don't need to worry.'

Male PCs are like firemen, squaddies and paramedics. They mostly don't have degrees and they do basic training. But they do a tough job, deal with real nasty people and see stuff that would give you nightmares. So i would forgive them a patronising comment.

Be careful can mean many things - most people have a basic understanding about how to "be careful" in relation to anything that might trouble a police officer about a person walking alone in a deserted area at night.

Be aware, don't listen to music, don't get your phone out and read texts, walk purposefully, have your hands free, take note of who is around you, have your car keys easily to hand. All the things that are pretty basic common sense and a police officer probably didn't think needed reiterating - at the risk of being accused of being patronising.

I've answered that question several times. Sometimes when you're wandering home in the dark (I did it every day for years), you're in a bubble. You might be thinking about whipping out your brand new iphone and browsing MN/random texting (distracting and an advert to would be muggers). You might not be looking where you're going (as happened to me and a shout of 'careful' stopped me walking into a bin), you might phone your dh and have a chat and become even more closed down to the world around you (stepping off the pavement maybe as it's quiet and you don't expect a silent pedal cycle at 11pm). A reminder about your surroundings is just that.

There are all manner of things you can be careful about. And like kew said, if it's a known area for problems and they see a dark figure carrying bags, it's possible that the opposite is true. Not a potential victim but a potential criminal. DH has been out in plain clothes and received a report about a male wandering down a known problem road in dark clothing. It was him! He wasn't offended or angry. He was wandering down a deserted road in the middle of the night. Like many people do. And it's probably somebody going home. But just in case the worse thing in the world was ever going to happen, then two police officers just stopping and recognising your face might make all the difference to pinning down what happened that night.

There are so many reasons why the police officers are just doing their jobs. You can choose to take offence or you can move on and accept it for what it was ie no big deal.

Really? I'm very aware when walking around in the dark. Maybe we're making the assumption that people aren't bright enough to realise all that stuff. I just can't imagine walking in the dark in a daydream.

I say 'be careful' to my 3yr old and it's just a reminder that wobbling along singing the Spiderman theme tune and pretending to shoot webs out her hand isn't necessarily appropriate next to the main road. I don't need to explain this in great detail, I'm merely bringing her attention out of the bubble she might be in.

kungfu, all of those things imply the police expected the OP to be attacked by someone, right? So why not say either 'there's someone dangerous out, we've just heard', or do their jobs? If there's an immediate threat, fine. If not, stop scaremongering or do your job.

I've never been stopped by the police and told not to walk somewhere, so if police in all the towns I've lived in can act like decent professionals, why couldn't these two?

bronze, I walked home from work every day for years (45 minute walk). It's human nature to daydream when you've walked that route 400 times already and it's always been the same.

Yes, don't tar other women with my comments. I am responsible enough to make the,-that does not mean that all feminists feel the same way.

I think women who think/presume and expect women to take precautions to avoid being someones' prey are stupid.