Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

814 replies

AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:05

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

OP posts:
Roseflower · 13/04/2011 20:14

Winter

You cannot expect one religious person to answer for all religious people. What person x thinks is a fact I might totally disagree with even if share the same faith.

I went through about 5 different churches before I finally found a vicar who inspired me and I felt at home with (shame we have moved now I miss her at lot!). Even vicars and priests, pastrol leaders etc have totally different opinions some of which I did not agree with at all.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 13/04/2011 20:26

I didn't askk anyone to, as you can clearly see I was commenting on the very nature of faith and questions of teaching same. Why make it personal?

And while various leaders can and do obviously have their own opinions, these don't replace canon, and texts. Churches have dogma, rules, teachings that are fundamental to those churches, there isn't always room for opinion. That was actually my point.

Roseflower · 13/04/2011 20:35

Well since you made direct answers to my posts and exotics and made a reference 'You're being very rude both of you, ' and exotic and I were the last posters I guess I just assumed.

Seems wrongly so. Carry on as you were.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 13/04/2011 20:40

The rudeness was on top of your actual points. I thought I'd point it out to you in case you didn't mean to sound that way.

Roseflower · 13/04/2011 20:45

Sorry Winter but I can't see where we have been rude but I apologise if you feel I have been in anyway

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 21:02

It is actually possible to have a faith without taking part in organised religion.
It is possible for a DC brought up in a particular Christian church to change. Catholics can become Quakers, Cof E etc. and vice versa. It is personal choice and it isn't set in stone.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 21:05

I'm sure most Catholics have opinions-they practise birth control in direct opposition to church opinion.
Adults are not programmed -neither are DCs-they are free to interpret in their own way.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 13/04/2011 22:25

I fear my point has been lost, so I'll leave it there.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 22:27

I think that most of us have lost the original point-best to all leave it to the DCs!

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 13/04/2011 22:35

I do think it's important to point out the negative aspects of superstition in an age-appropriate way. Such as the discrimination against women, gay men and 'unbelievers' and the disproportionate amount of power claimed by cult leaders.

SolarPanel · 13/04/2011 22:40

Those aren't negative aspects of the real religions though SCGB. The religions don't actually advocate those things.

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 13/04/2011 23:56

SolarPanel: Don't be ridiculous. Discrimination against women is inherent in all the Abrahamic myth systems and the other main myth brands as well. While there are indeed some individuals who manage to combine belief in an imaginary friend with not being a woman-hating, homophobic, racist, xenophobic arsehole, they are generally fighting a losing battle with the majority of their fellow believers. Who can always come up with some nonsense or other about this is what Great Pumpkin meant, or that Great Pumpkin made women to be men's servants and property.

Roseflower · 14/04/2011 00:40

Spring

Please could you give us one example where Jesus was a 'woman-hating, homophobic, racist, xenophobic arsehole'

Roseflower · 14/04/2011 00:46

By the way as I said I visited 4-5 churches before we found one we felt at home in.

Each church had women leaders (infact my beloved vicar who married us was female) and women played very important roles in running the church. Each church was also full of people from all different backgrounds.

Infact on my alpha course there was a man form India and black lady and two Americans among others- in a group led by a woman.

Yes, just awful these real life examples arent they?

exoticfruits · 14/04/2011 07:52

This is your opinion SCGB not a fact. It is unfair to muddle your DC by confusing the two, however I expect that he will work it out for himself and turn a deaf ear-or maybe you are sensible enought to leave it to him to form his own opinion.

exoticfruits · 14/04/2011 07:54

Our local vicar is gay-with a Kenyan boyfriend-he seems to manage perfectly OK within C of E. I wonder quite which decade you are describing SCGB.

exoticfruits · 14/04/2011 07:55

Sorry-should have said partner.

SolarPanel · 14/04/2011 08:56

I stand by what I said, SCGB. Those things are not "inherent" in religions at all. Obviously some people use religion to "justify" things like that, but that's not the same thing. I'll be interested to hear your reply to Roseflower's question "Please could you give us one example where Jesus was a 'woman-hating, homophobic, racist, xenophobic arsehole". Christians follow Christ, we do not follow the problems of the Old Testament which Jesus came to overthrow, and we do not follow "the Church".

Snorbs · 14/04/2011 10:50

"Christians follow Christ, we do not follow the problems of the Old Testament which Jesus came to overthrow, and we do not follow "the Church"."

It's a tad disingenuous to suggest that Christians en mass (pun intended) have no interest in the Old Testament of "the Church".

Not least because in doing so you are implying that the raging debates about, say, women bishops and gay clergy where solely between people who weren't Christians.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 14/04/2011 10:56

Er, what? "Christians" don't follow "the Church" or the Old Testament? Are you kidding? You know Catholics are christian, as are baptists, methodists, protestants, lutherans...you know, the whole lot?

Hmm
Roseflower · 14/04/2011 11:23

Christians are often told in this thread by various posters what they do and don't do as if they are all identical and as if the atheist just 'knows' the finer details of evey Christian/ religous person.

Now poster's finally realise they are individuals! (Though I apologise to the two posters above if you knew that all along)

Well that is only good I suppose so excellent! I am honestly happy :)

Snorbs · 14/04/2011 11:28

And it's often the Christians who are the ones who are saying what Christians do and/or believe (as in SolarPanel's post). Often with the implicit or explicit assumption that anyone who disagrees isn't a real Christian.

Roseflower · 14/04/2011 11:39

Well I don't know if SolarPanel meant that- the mistake was not to say "some" or a "Majority" etc Christians.

Although I personally think she is generally right that a high percentage of modern day Cof E Christians based through my ancedotal experience in the UK (of course this is not a one-rule-applies-to-all) will follow this.

But yes there are some Christians who think if you dont follow their personal take on things you are somehow not as real as them.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 14/04/2011 12:25

CofE is a very small percentage of world wide christians, if you want to take someone to task here for sterotyping, I suggest you start with the bizarre claims of SolarPanel.

It is certainly not a Majority of christians who ignore the old testament or don't follow a church. The vast majority do both. Such a narrow minded view of one small branch of religion in one tiny country!

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 14/04/2011 12:29

I'm a Christian. I eat meat on Fridays though. Oh, and wear mixed fibres. Not so good at the 'not working on the Sabbath' bit either. Oh, and my children aren't being raised in the Church. And one of my oldest, dearest friends is gay and visiting with his new boyfriend next week. I also don't believe in Hell or Satan. I struggle with the concept that the Bible should never be questioned as it's the word of God. I'm pretty sure God Himself didn't put quill to parchment. St. Paul is a blatant mysoginist. But that's ok, because Jesus wasn't that arsed about the rituals of religion. His central message was just to try and be decent to other people. Which of course an awful lot of atheists manage perfectly well without believing in God, and an awful lot of supposed Christians fail miserably at.

So maybe I'm not a Christian? Except I think I am. My faith is important to me. I feel no need to belittle others about their take on faith or their lack of it. It also perhaps explains why I haven't been baptised or joined a church, though

Swipe left for the next trending thread