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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

814 replies

AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:05

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

OP posts:

Roseflower · 12/04/2011 22:53

I agree exotic with what you said

Though, despite that I do love this quote:

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making the world believe he didn't exsist"

SpringchickenGoldBrass · 12/04/2011 23:06

Animation: "Another thing about evil - that when you're at the receiving end of of an evil deed, in the form of lies or blame directed at you - you usually get a revulsion feeling in the stomach.

That is your gut instinct giving you a warning sign that evil is being done."

This is rank nonsense because it's entirely subjective. People may get a physical sensation of distress when someone does something to them that they don't like, but that doesn't mean that what's being done to them is necessarily even wrong. People can get angry, upset and scared when they are prevented from having their own way, for instance.

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 13/04/2011 10:31

Have to agree with SGB. If I ban my DS from playing on the XBox because he battered his brother, he'll probably feel that evil is being done to him. I would disagree. Likewise, I remember reading a biography of Billy Connolly where he stated that his father sexually abused him, yet at the time he wasn't upset and thought it felt nice. Only as he got older did he realise it was wrong.

Peetle · 13/04/2011 11:03

To go back to the original post; you don't raise children as "atheist", you just raise them and tell them about the practices and beliefs some people hold.

That's what I'm doing anyway. I will also tell them a little about how the world came to be and a little about morals and good behaviour. If after all that they still feel the need of an imaginary friend in the sky I will be disappointed but once their old enough to make their own decisions I'll live with it.

I will tell them that when we die that's it, so believing in the imaginary friend is a bit of a waste of time.

SolarPanel · 13/04/2011 11:55

How is that not raising a child as atheist?

"I will tell them that when we die that's it, so believing in the imaginary friend is a bit of a waste of time."

joaninha · 13/04/2011 12:21

The bottom line is we as parents teach our kids what we consider to be the truth, because we love them right? As much as we tell them they can make up their own minds our kids cannot help but be affected by our beliefs.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 17:16

I will tell them that when we die that's it,

How clever! Could you enlighten us as to how you know this for a fact? Will you feel cheated if you die and find out you were wrong?

I suspect that you believe death is the end. Perfectly reasonable as long as you make it clear to your DC that it is a belief-an intelligent DC is going to work out that things are not so 'because Mummy says so'!

minipie · 13/04/2011 17:24

Of course exotic.

Part of a child growing up is realising that not everything your parents have told you is necessarily true, it's just their opinion.

They generally figure this out pretty early (unfortunately ).

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 17:27

I don't see why it is unfortunate-it is a good thing. Bring them up to question everyone -including you and don't let them get away with saying things are facts when they are opinion!

highhopes2010 · 13/04/2011 17:34

I went to a C/E school.I also said my prayers each night as a child(dont remember mum/dad asking me to say them?).I decided DS(10 now)could make his own mind up about if he wanted to be christened and religion.He now goes to a C/E school where he learns about different religions also but he says himself he doesnt believe in God because there's "too much sadness in Japan,Afganistan"etc so how can there be? I talk different points with him but it will be his choice.

highhopes2010 · 13/04/2011 17:36

roseflower,isnt that quote off the usual suspects?did they get it from somewhere else?

Roseflower · 13/04/2011 17:37

Yes it is; great film.

highhopes2010 · 13/04/2011 17:40

It was a great film.

frankie3 · 13/04/2011 17:51

I bring my DC's up to follow my religion as it is a big part of my culture, family and identity. However, I definitely don't believe in all of it, and have times when I would describe myself as an atheist. I'm not sure if I believe in god or life after death, but when a relative dies I always tell my DC's that they are in heaven looking down on us. My DC's like to think of grandad sitting on a cloud! I don't believe this but maybe this is why religion developed, to stop us being scared of death.

So I do think that it is important to feel part of something, like an ethnic or cultural group, but also have the ability to question it. My DS asks lots of questions and I do try to answer truthfully, saying "this is what people believe, although there is no proof".

I know lots of people who have converted religion and lead very happy fulfilled lives, but I don't think that we can all bring up all our children to follow no religion, and leave them to choose which one to follow when they are 18. Such a large part of religion is family, traditions and history.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 18:04

Luckily at school they are taught to differentiate between fact and opinion, but I think that it helps if you don't muddle the two at home.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 13/04/2011 18:11

Its all opinion though, there are no facts here. No one comes back from the dead to explain it all for you.
Actually if you want to go further, for many of us in the subjectivist or idealist traditions, there is only opinion, full stop. Would get a bit tiring adding "in my opinion" as an addendum to everything when talking to children though. "Yes dear, thats a doggie inasmuch as it appears to my own unique perception that it appears to fit somewhere within the prototypical category defined in our particular language as a dog "

Roseflower · 13/04/2011 18:14

Of course.

But big issues like death, meaning of life etc are not the same as pointing out a dog.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 13/04/2011 18:21

Not that I said they were.
I wonder though does the addendum apply to the faithful though. Should they say "Jesus died for your sins" only in my opinion though, even though my religion says it is fact I will tell you it might not be?

Because they don't really, do they?

Roseflower · 13/04/2011 18:33

Of course. All the faithful in this thread (and other recent religious threads) have said they would give dc's all the different views and let them make their own mind up.

Exotics espscially, has advocated this greatly in the thread.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 13/04/2011 19:11

In general though, not the self selected sample who would be naturally drawn to a thread of this type. It's not expected of religious people in general.

And to be honest, I'm not sure I understand why it would be. It doesn't sound much of a strong faith to say its just your opinion, because its not meant to be your opinion. Jesus died and was risen again is a fundamental teaching of the Catholic Church (and presumably others?), its meant to be taken as fact by the faithful, is it not? And taught as fact, to the faithful.

There's a real dichotomy there.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 19:18

Of course those with a faith tell them it is opinion-how can it be fact?
I really think that you are doing your DC a great disservice if you don't differentiate between fact and opinion. How are they to question anyone if you have fed them opinions as facts? The next person with an opinion is likely to be taken as a fact. All adults will be seen as authorities-if they start by questioning you they will question other adults.
As it is a long thread Winter you may have missed the point that I don't care whether a DC has a faith or not, as long as they have made up their own mind. You can't make up your mind if you only get one side.
I have taken my DCs to church and they have rejected it-they stopped going when 7/8yrs. What I really can't understand is why it matters. Why do they have to think the same as me? Why do I have to think the same as my parents?

Roseflower · 13/04/2011 19:27

It's not expected of religious people in general.

So you generally lump people together based on one defining charcteristic?
Shame on you.

teacherwith2kids · 13/04/2011 19:39

I'm sorry, joining this thread late in the day.

My children attend a community school.

They know, through RE lessons and the 'cultural Christianity' of our country (where, after all, holidays are called 'the Christmas holiday' and 'the Easter holiday'), about Christianity, and would know where to find out more.

I have taken them to church, and also to a Sikh Gurdwara and a Hindu temple (reaserch for my own RE teaching), and school has taken them to a local synagogue. We have a close family friend who is Muslim. They therefore know where they could find out more about each of these religions and have been exposed to some of the main traditions and teachings of each of these world faiths.

In this extremely limited way I am trying to make them aware that faith exists, that it is important to people, and that should they wish to know more they can always do so.

In my mind it is the same, and has to same role in parenting as e.g. making certian that children experience a variety of books, a variety of possible hobbies, a variety of sports and other interests, a variety of places - not to immerse them fully in any single one but to give them an awareness of the existence of a variety and choice which they can then follow up in their lives as they wish to.

exoticfruits · 13/04/2011 19:41

If religious people are giving it as fact rather than opinion they are just as bad a atheists giving it as a fact.
(no wonder DCs have problems if adults haven't worked out the difference between fact and opinion).
If it is a fact it can be proved to be true-even to those who might not want it to be a fact. If you can't prove it, then it is an opinion, belief, faith, hope or similar.

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 13/04/2011 20:04

Do I lump religious people together regarding a question on religion when it applies equally to all religions?
Er yes. Like I'd lump all humans together on questions of breathing oxygen. Shame on me.

You don't agree that the point of faith is that you do see it as a fact? Fair enough. Most priests would disagree with you though.

I understand the difference between opinion and fact inasmuch as their is any such thing as fact. I'm talking about questions of faith, many of which leave little room for such nuance. Am I going a little fast for you? You're being very rude both of you, do you mean to sound that way?

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